Add Quest: building:material

[ravenfeld]

I'm going to split the request in 2. https://github.com/Helium314/SCEE/issues/443

Creating a quest to add building material

[HolgerJeromin]

Metal, steel and tin is a bit confusing. But yeah, all are in use...

[ravenfeld]

Yes, I said to myself that I couldn't select a value. Maybe change the message to indicate that only experts can use it?

Or other photos but I myself am not an expert on the subject.

[HolgerJeromin]

Perhaps drop steel and tin and let metal as the only value.

[ravenfeld]

@Claurt07 @Un1matr1x

What do you say to these tags?

I like having the choice, especially when I know the subject well. In this case, it would mean that contributors are being forced to use metal, which may or may not be the case. But I'll let those who contribute to these values tell us what they need.

[mcliquid]

metal is a generic term for a variety of elements and alloys with metallic properties. steel is a solid alloy of iron and carbon. steel is defined in the norm "EN 10020". tin is a soft, silvery-white metal. tin forms verdigris (green mould), which is often found on church roofs (Example).

As a comparison to surface: metal behaves more or less like paved while steel, aluminium or tin are more specific.

[Claurt07]

@mcliquid thanks for shedding some light on that -- I have to acknowledge I was not clear on the distinction of some of these. Keeping at least metal or steel and tin (or the three) are good for my use case, as we provide a way for people to specify a form of metal that is generic and one that might be more "vulnerable" than the rest.

@ravenfeld the rest looks good to me! the images are also very illustrative. I only have another question, should Mud and Adobe be combined and leave only Mud? It is called Adobe where I am from in LATAM, but I wonder if it is not too specific.

[HolgerJeromin]

@mcliquid You are right, but the target audience is probably not able to differ steel from other metals...

[mcliquid]

@HolgerJeromin I definitely agree with the target group of StreetComplete. But here we are talking about SCEE - the StreetComplete Expert Edition, right? My understanding of this version is that we can offer quests here that can go beyond the normal expected level of knowledge, as we can expect the specific target group to intentionally disable such quests (each of which comes with an individual warning) if they are unable to answer them.

[Helium314]

I did not have a look at basically anything yet, but please massive reduce image size. This PR alone is adding ~4 megabytes to app size.

Also not sure about the general style when I look at the images. Some of the tags appear to be categories, e.g. metal -> tin+steel, or stone -> sandstone.

Btw what is mirror supposed to mean? "This building is made of mirrors"?

[ravenfeld]

@mcliquid @Claurt07 @Un1matr1x Can you help me find more meaningful images? I've looked on the wiki and on wikimedia common. As this is not a quest that I would undertake and as it is taking me a long time to find images, I would like to ask for your help. Thank you for your help.

[mnalis]

TL;DR: perhaps go just with metal (or metal and copper), ignoring other metal-detailed answers.

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tin forms verdigris (green mould), which is often found on church roofs (Example).

Actually, it is copper salts that produce that green patina, not tin. Tin is major component of solder, and tin foil is what we used to use to make tin foil hats to protect us from government (or alien) mind-reading devices (or to wrap food) :smiley: - although it has mostly been superseded by aluminium foil nowdays, but name stuck.

As for building material, while I generally prefer detailed answers to be available in SCEE, I'm not so sure here.

Basically, only copper is distinctive, other metals not so much. So I'd be fine with just metal (or metal and copper, but that is bound to have people asking questions "why is there copper, and not tin" etc).

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Most people (who are not material scientists or are unwilling to scratch the surfaces to determine what it is) will be hard pressed to tell the difference between corrugated galvanized iron (sometimes called "wriggly tin" to add to the confusion, even if Zinc is used for galvanization), steel that has been coated with Zinc-Aluminium, iron/steel coated with thin layer of tin (also known as "Tinplate"), various aluminium alloys (aluminium+manganese, aluminium+magnesium etc.) and steel coated with alloy of lead and tin (also called Tinplate colloquially, but more precisely Terne, even if in original coating there was order of magnitude more lead then tin; but the coating is not load bearing (majority) material anyway).

The use of actual tin as building/roof material is not what one would find in real life, it is too structurally weak. Also, "Tinplates" often do not contain tin at all (and even when they do, it is in micro amounts only for coating, main load bearing material usually being steel; but there are also various aluminum alloys which people might incorrectly call by such "tin" names because of history - just like Tinfoil hat above)

[mcliquid]

So I'd be fine with just metal

I agree, let's start simple and pick only the significant values. You can always extend a quest later!

[ravenfeld]

What do you want me to display then?

[mnalis]

What do you want me to display then?

Drop steel, tin, copper, metal_plates (but retain generic metal)

[mnalis]

As far as I can see, those are several issues mentioned so far that prevent this PR:

• update to avoid strings_ee.xml conflicts
• update EE_QUEST_OFFSET + 48 to new value after updating to latest master
• please massive reduce image size. This PR alone is adding ~4 megabytes to app size

[ravenfeld]

Hello, I'm coming back to my PR. I've used my version a lot, which I've modified, and it's not very good for the community. I'm going to make one PR by one PR to avoid having too many open with you.

I've used ImageOptim (https://imageoptim.com/versions.html ) to compress images, it's simple and local.

[Helium314]

I've used ImageOptim (https://imageoptim.com/versions.html ) to compress images, it's simple and local.

Thanks, that's a considerable reduction in size!

[Helium314]

This looks mostly fine now, only maybe a few details left, and @Claurt07's question is still open:

I only have another question, should Mud and Adobe be combined and leave only Mud? It is called Adobe where I am from in LATAM, but I wonder if it is not too specific.

[mnalis]

@ravenfeld this SCEE PR (and few others by you) are almost finished and need just a little attention from you to make them mergable. Would you perhaps have time to do that in nearby future? :heart:

[ravenfeld]

I'm going to try it this weekend but with the application I'm developing for Panorama + work, I'd moved on to something other than SCEE. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[mnalis]

I'm going to try it this weekend but with the application I'm developing for Panorama + work, I'd moved on to something other than SCEE. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No worries @ravenfeld, life priorities change; it is understood. Thank you for your contributions so far, and any that may happen on the weekend should you manage it! :heart:

If situation changes, we'll love to have to you contribute again; but in the meantime, given the explanation, I'll assume it is fine with you for someone else interested to pick up those half-finished PRs (after the weekend) and bring them to completion?

[ravenfeld]

I'm going to try it this weekend but with the application I'm developing for Panorama + work, I'd moved on to something other than SCEE. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No worries @ravenfeld, life priorities change; it is understood. Thank you for your contributions so far, and any that may happen on the weekend should you manage it! ❤️

If situation changes, we'll love to have to you contribute again; but in the meantime, given the explanation, I'll assume it is fine with you for someone else interested to pick up those half-finished PRs (after the weekend) and bring them to completion?

It's not my property. Anyone can take over the PR without any worries

[Helium314]

I think this is fine now, thank you @ravenfeld. I just want to go through everything once more, and test the quest on my phone (hopefully tomorrow).

[Helium314]

I think it's mostly fine, only minor comment

• In some cases the images don't help much in my opinon (e.g. marble), but the text is clear enough. No need to change anything.
• You changed the text from overall material for both, but on reading the wiki again, overall surface material would be a better fit. Sorry for that... Or does anyone have a better idea than What overall surface material is this building (part) made of?
• For the icon I think it would be nice to have something like a brick wall instead of just a plain green surface on the building. I guess I should be able to do it if you don't think it's worth the effort.

[Helium314]

Oh, one more thing: could you rename the strings to use material instead of building_material? Then we can re-use some of them for the roof material quest. I just renamed the strings for bench material, so we can also re-use those. No point in having the same strings multiple times, especially considering that the existing ones are already translated to many languages.

[ravenfeld]

@Helium314 I have updated what I understood from your requests.

[Helium314]

Thanks a lot, looks good! Does anyone else have comments? Otherwise I'll merge it soon.