Silicon Line: The HV process is complex but useless and should be removed/changed.

[chochem]

Your GTNH Discord Username

chochom#0271

Your Pack Version

2.1.2.4 4-dev-pre-test

Your Proposal

Remove the HV silicon line and dichlorosilane/trichlorosilane/silane/hexachlorosilane. Or otherwise overhaul this process to something actually meaningful.

Your Goal

The new silicon line additions provide two different paths to get from Raw Silicon Dust to Silicon Solar Grade (Poly Si) Dust.

The first unlocks in LV and involves three very simple recipes with a sodium and chlorine loop. The end result is that 1 raw silicon dust becomes 1 Solar Grade Dust.

The second path unlocks in HV and is a lot more involved. It needs 8 recipes, requires a good amount of hydrogen, produces small amounts of chlorine, and includes 4 fluids/gasses who's only use is in this chain (dichlorosilane/trichlorosilane/silane/hexachlorosilane). And what is the end result of all that effort? 1 raw silicon dust becomes 1.01 Solar Grade Dust.

here are my quick calculations (let me know if you think they are wrong):

That means this more complex HV line is 100% useless at all stages of the game. In fact, the LV line is so nice, simple and scalable that even a buff to the HV would likely not change that.

Hence it is best to just remove.

By the way: I would love to know what the idea was behind these recipes. Maybe something can be done to achieve them?

Your Vision

less bloat/useless and confusing stuff.

Final Checklist

• [X] I have searched this issue tracker and there is nothing similar already. Posting on a closed issue saying I like this change please reconsider adding it will prompt us to investigate and reopen it once we confirm your report.
• [X] I understand this change request may not attract enough attention and thus not be implemented.
• [X] I understand this change request may be rejected due to other community members think it's inappropriate.
• [X] I believe this feature would make the pack better.

[Dream-Master]

nope why remove it. I will buff it so it make sense

[chochem]

I think I just figured out (with henryduke) at least why the HV recipe is in such a bad place. It probably used to be a good bit better than the LV one, but then https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/issues/10228 buffed the LV variant without adjusting the HV one.

[Pxx500]

How about reversing LV silione rubber change that made it Cl neutral, if it's going to waste chlorine then the HV variant would automatically better. Then buffing HV variant would make things balanced

[Pxx500]

It would make sense that the "worse" process has losses while "complex" one has less/none

[chochem]

@shawnbyday any thoughts?

[shawnbyday]

I really think that the LV/MV line needs to stay lossless. Having to convert the salt back into chlorine makes it "complex enough" for its stage of the game.

I would probably agree with Dream by buffing the HV line if anything...let's not overtune the change at this point and give the general masses time to evaluate it.

I also still haven't gotten the pack to load on my system since I created the post in Discord so I haven't been able to test the lossless cycle. I did significant testing prior to lossless and can say it was a little "too much" for that stage of the game (and this is a comment coming from someone that actually liked the hatch nerf back in the day until it was rolled back lol).

Let's maybe focus this issue around how we can alter the HV recipe to make it more enticing.

[Pxx500]

I just don't like when things have efficiency over 100%. I assume HV line is 100% efficient and I would like for it to stay that way but I never checked it, so if it isn't 100%eff I agree that it should be buffed to 100% but I'd rather nerf LV then make HV over 100% efficient.

[chochem]

I posted the numbers above. and HV is like 101% silicon efficiency while gaining tiny amounts of chlorine and loosing hydrogen. I think it had small losses on all three of those as well as sodium without the salt change.

If we are buffing HV than we should at least be careful that the buff does not increase chlorine as it is already positive. I dont mind to have above 100% efficiency on raw silicon->solar grade. But this process probably shouldn't replace regular chlorine production.

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

Here are my two cents:

1. The LV process seems ok for early game and the fact that it is lossless is a nice addition for when mining is manually and resources may be sparse.
2. The LV process is bad for late-/endgame as looping around chlorine/sodium and salt just to turn A into B only and unnecessarily consumes tps. If a closed loop process is meant to stay we need to increase the numbers significantly to reduce amount of cycles and save tps.
3. The HV process seems more attractive, however the outputs that just exist to be recycled again fall under the same category as item 2. Turning 1 raw into 1.01 poly is not attractive, I suggest to turn 1 into 1 with a %chance for a second (10-20%). Additionally with a recipe that consumes and produces more per cycle to save on tps.

[chochem]

dev18 update: the numbers are slightly different now due to the chem standardization. Everything is now lossless and silicon is 1:1 in either process.

Even worse, I cannot see any way to fix this. Things like 'chlorine loss' or 'bonus output' are forbidden now.

[GlodBlock]

lossful recipe is still acceptable in minimal(like the silicon dioxide electrolysis), but bonus output is forbidden even this material can't be electrolyszed, because you don't know how people can decomposit it with a bunch of reactions(e.g. the industrial hydrofluoric acid, you can't turn it back to hydrofluoric acid directly but can use IHF -> NaF -> Na2SO4 + HF route to decomposit it, which caused the fluorine dupe)

[github-actions[bot]]

This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days

[boubou19]

i'd like to see a buff of the HV path as well.

[Dream-Master]

will check it soon

[github-actions[bot]]

This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days

[github-actions[bot]]

This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days

[Lithorn]

I want to make a suggestion. The LCR version of Trichlorosilane has a 10/30 input ratio for a 9/20 output with some byproducts. I don't care about the byproducts, could we add another circuit version that is a straight 10/30 input (Bulk craft) for a 10/22 Output? No Byproducts. That way those who do want the byproducts can have them and those who don't have another circuit they can use for without.

[github-actions[bot]]

This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days

[github-actions[bot]]

This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days