ESCOMP
SAM-CTSM coupling progress
Mark Branson at CSU is getting SAM-CTSM ready to run with support from @negin513 and @slevisconsulting
Today's meeting:
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Mark’s setup compiles successfully. He needs to address SAM’s handling of the wrfbdy data before he can start a run.
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Negin suggested WRF's
subroutine start_emas a good starting point for Mark to look at how WRF works with the wrfbdy data. -
Negin provided information about the corresponding ERA-I files: ERA Interim files for surface : /gpfs/fs1/collections/rda/data/ds627.0/ei.oper.an.sfc/ 3d: /gpfs/fs1/collections/rda/data/ds627.0/ei.oper.an.pl/ The data is available for every year and month under a sub-folder named $YEAR$MONTH. For example for 2013 month 4, the data is under 201304 folder.
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We discussed git/github. Mark will look into what ScottD and Marat prefer. I suggested creating a repository under Mark’s username for now and moving everything under NCAR (or other institution) later, when SAM-CTSM is ready for release. I am open to starting in NCAR right from the beginning if that makes more sense and @billsacks we could use your feedback on this.
We discussed git/github. Mark will look into what ScottD and Marat(?) prefer. I suggested creating a repository under Mark’s username for now and moving everything under NCAR (or other institution) later, when SAM-CTSM is ready for release. I am open to starting in NCAR right from the beginning if that makes more sense and @billsacks we could use your feedback on this.
I believe that the NCAR GitHub organization is only meant for NCAR employees. External collaborators can be added to projects, but I feel it would be hard for CSU to manage a repo under the NCAR organization. Options I see are:
- SAM is hosted in Mark's GitHub account. It is very common for projects to be hosted in individual rather than organization accounts on GitHub, even for large projects like https://github.com/torvalds/linux
- If CSU has a GitHub organization, that feels like a good home for it
- Otherwise, if SAM fits the terms of ESCOMP https://escomp.github.io/, it could possibly be hosted there
I got a reply from Marat. Regarding setting up my own GitHub repo for SAM-CTSM he said:
It’s fine as long as it is NOT widely open in terms of public access to SAM code. SAM remains to be distributed from one place. It is not a community model (yet).
and with regard to setting up a CONUS case he said this:
I am a bit skeptical as SAM doesn’t have topography. Global SAM does, but GSAM is not ready for public use as it is being still developed and no documentation exists. SAM still doesn’t have open BC, so I mimic them by heavily nudging along the strips of domains along the boundaries (say 10% of width in each direction). But the boundary conditions are profiles only, no dependence on x,y. So, cannot be used for CONUS. Global SAM doesn’t have a need for the lateral boundaries, as it is global. Of course, I could put up a regional version of global SAM, but it would require too much time, which is not justified by unfunded collaboration.
I have concerns about the additional code modifications needed for SAM for running the CONUS test case that was created for WRF-CTSM. These are in addition to the modifications needed to get SAM linked up with LILAC/CTSM.
- Marat pointed out that SAM is an anelastic model, which which implies that the total (domain integrated) divergence of all in/out mass fluxes at boundaries should be exactly zero, unlike in compressible models (e.g., WRF, RAMS). Otherwise the model will be unstable. This condition is not easy to enforce. ==> After consulting with Don Dazlich at CSU, he thinks we would implement a 4D nudging scheme to handle the CONUS case.
- The pressure solver in SAM currently supports either walls or periodic domains, so it would need to be generalized to an arbitrary prescribed boundary. Again, Don would be needed to help with this.
I think I can handle the WRF-CTSM code mods, but I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
@dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.
I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis [email protected] wrote:
[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.
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I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.
On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.
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OK. I guess that I don't really understand how SAM is typically used (or will be used). The goal should clearly be to strive to get something working for the main applications/configurations of SAM, and the question that appears to be in front of us is how difficult that will be and whether the cost is worth it. I guess that is mainly a question that Scott can answer.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM mbranson [email protected] wrote:
I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.
On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson < https://github.com/mbranson> to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.
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I'm definitely interested in hearing Scott's opinion on this. As for me, I think we should go ahead and proceed with the SAM-CTSM implementation with the hope that we can get the other SAM-specific modifications implemented to run the CONUS case. But even if that doesn't work out we'd still have the ability to run single-point/smaller domain simulations like ARM cases and I feel like there's a lot of utility in having that functionality.
Mark
On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:20 AM, David Lawrence <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
OK. I guess that I don't really understand how SAM is typically used (or will be used). The goal should clearly be to strive to get something working for the main applications/configurations of SAM, and the question that appears to be in front of us is how difficult that will be and whether the cost is worth it. I guess that is mainly a question that Scott can answer.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM mbranson <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.
On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence <[email protected]mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis <[email protected]mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?
@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson < https://github.com/mbranson> to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.
— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESCOMP/CTSM/issues/1212#issuecomment-742114997, or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFABYVDFLBSLZLZ73PEAZELST755NANCNFSM4TSRCBZA>
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Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar , @negin513 , @slevisconsulting
Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.
Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.
On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbransonhttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0 , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncarhttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0 , @negin513https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0 , @slevisconsultinghttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0
Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.
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Thanks for your efforts Mark. Despite this not working out, I think it was a positive experience for LILAC to go through the process of considering how to integrate with a new model.
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 8:35 AM mbranson [email protected] wrote:
Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.
On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0> , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0> , @negin513< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0> , @slevisconsulting< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0>
Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.
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Thanks, Dave. Sorry it didn’t work out. I was actually excited to implement it, but now I’m glad that the effort can go into MPAS and LIS.
On Dec 22, 2020, at 9:33 AM, David Lawrence <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for your efforts Mark. Despite this not working out, I think it was a positive experience for LILAC to go through the process of considering how to integrate with a new model.
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 8:35 AM mbranson <[email protected]mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.
On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis <[email protected]mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0> , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0> , @negin513< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0> , @slevisconsulting< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0>
Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.
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