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Order of cost reductions can sometimes matter

Open tool4ever opened this issue 3 years ago • 4 comments

If you control Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh + Heartstone you should be able to activate Burnished Hart for {0}.

Currently it can still be {1} if the Stone ETB after Tezzeret.

But rules say:

If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order.

@Hanmac Always choosing order might be annoying? What you think about just sorting them so those with MinMana$ are always done first?

tool4ever avatar Sep 14 '22 14:09 tool4ever

We need to find the Corner Case where such thing matters.

  • as far as i know, MinMana only happens for reducing the Cost of Activated abilities.
  • most of them reduce only for cards on the battlefield
  • stuff that reduces outside are far more rare. like Embalmer's Tools for GY.

having multiple without MinMana is no problem, while having multiple with MinMana is also no problem.

the case should only be needed to ask the player if there is at minimum one with MinMana and one without MinMana?

Hanmac avatar Sep 14 '22 15:09 Hanmac

My search resulted in no other cases.

But I found this commit of yours: 40b1f89c8fd647f917a39aad3cbb09d10356735e which stopped the combination with ReduceCost$ also from allowing it.

Example (Ability always costs {1}): image Unless I'm missing something it shouldn't be treated differently?

Also somewhat related:

If an effect (such as the one from Lodestone Golem) imposes an additional generic mana cost to casting Khalni Hydra, the Hydra’s ability will reduce it too. It’ll reduce the amount of green mana you need to spend first, though.

Currently not working (will always be at least {1})

tool4ever avatar Sep 15 '22 11:09 tool4ever

ugh, more stupid corner cases ...

  • Edgewalker, Ragemonger, Morophon, the Boundless, Bard Class explicit says that they do not remove generic mana
  • Khalni Hydra seems to be the only one that can

Hanmac avatar Sep 15 '22 13:09 Hanmac

Found the rules:

118.7b If a cost is reduced by an amount of colored or colorless mana, but the cost doesn’t require mana of that type, the cost is reduced by that amount of generic mana. 118.7c If a cost is reduced by an amount of colored mana that exceeds its mana component of that color, the cost’s mana component of that color is reduced to nothing and the cost’s generic mana component is reduced by the difference.

but most of them have a restriction to not reduce generic mana

Hanmac avatar Sep 17 '22 07:09 Hanmac

This issue has not been updated in a while and has now been marked as stale. Stale messages will be auto closed.

github-actions[bot] avatar Jun 08 '23 09:06 github-actions[bot]