D2 Gauss Ammo Distribution when killed

[StrifeinCA]

[Issue] When killing a player that has picked up multiple Gauss ammo packs, and is killed, the ammo stays in that dropped cannon. It does not send the ammo packs back into the game. The player that was just killed can pick up that same cannon, and have all 20k Gauss available to them. The player that did the killing can not collect on any of the gauss powerups, as the ammo packs do not drop. The only option is to drop your cannon, and pick their full cannon up. This presents itself as an issue because if a game last long enough, everyone will be left with just the 2500 rounds that come with the gun.

[Expected results] When killed, the cannon should be dropped and if picked back up only have 2500 ammo. You need to pick up the ammo boxes through out the level that have been re-spawned.

[Tested with Tyranny]

• Ty picked up all Gauss ammo(20,000) and a Gauss cannon in the level leaving me no ammo other than my cannon stock levels(2500).
  • I killed him and no ammo boxes dropped, just his Gauss Cannon.
  • I was unable to collect any ammo by flying over his Cannon either.
  • Ty picked up his Cannon and had all 20,000 still in it.
  • He dropped his Cannon and I dropped mine.
  • I picked his up, and had all 20,000 rounds
  • Ty picked up mine and was left with the default 2500.

[CDarrow]

Excellent report! Unfortunately, this is a stickier issue than that.

Gauss ammo does not, in Retro, and never has respawned throughout the level as you use it. It has always depleted from the original amount, the same in D2 as in D1.

HOWEVER, Retro 1.3a fixes two bugs that caused gauss ammo to duplicate:

• If you already have gauss/vulcan and run over a gauss/vulcan cannon, you extract the ammo from it . . . but never tell the other player you have done so. When he picks up the cannon, he also finds it full. This caused all the ammo in the level to duplicate every time you flew though someone's spew!
• If you are carrying a gauss but NOT a vulcan, when you die, you will drop the gauss cannon with all its ammo on it (and bring it up to 1250 if it isn't already). And then you will ALSO drop ammo packs for all the vulcan ammo you're carrying, rounded UP! This has the effect that every time you die carrying a gauss but not a vulcan, all the vulcan ammo you have on board will duplicate.

I am not sure about the origins of the first bug, but I think it goes back to original D2. But I KNOW the second one goes back to original D2!

The combined effect of these bugs is that even though vulcan ammo is depleted as you play through a kill, the leftover ammo will double or even triple with every pilot death. For example, did you know that Barathrum has NO ammo packs? Yet by the end of a match in there, you can have a pair of cannons at 20k and ammo boxes floating around the level.

This is a hard issue to resolve. I had been asked by Rangers to resolve the gauss ammo duplication bugs, but I am not sure they realized at the time that those bugs go all the way back to original D2, and at this point constitute behavior we EXPECT. Just because something was a bug does not mean it is not now a feature.

However, none of the pilots I have explained this to have said, "Oh yes, ammo duping is a feature I want." Gauss is widely seen as OP, and having effectively unlimited ammo is not a Good Thing. It also runs contrary to the philosophy of letting level designers control the amount of weaponry available (as we've been correcting with the conc respawn option, homer saturation, etc.)

As I see it, we have three options going foward:

(1) Continue with the behavior in 1.3a: Gauss ammo depletes from the initial supply, just as vulcan ammo does in D1

(2) Restore the duplication-in-the-absence-of-vulcan behavior, because it is original, even if it is crappy, unexpected, and clearly wrong ;)

(3) Have players drop vulcan/gauss cannons with always the minimum amount of ammo on them, and drop all ammo packs they picked up WHETHER OR NOT THEY USED THEM UP, keeping the ammo supply in the level constant, and giving level designers control over it.

We need to discuss this with the community and figure out a path forward. Part of the problem is that the gauss'n'mercs crowd seems to have gone missing, so it is hard to consult them about the right thing to do. Most of the D2 decisions have been made with input from Sirius and Naphtha and the crickets. ;) I'll try to start this conversation next time we're building toward a Retro version, though.

In the mean time, you can get behavior (1) in D2 Retro 1.3a, and behavior (2) in D2 Retro 1.3. If that's not a good enough stopgap, let me know and I'll cook something up for you.

[CDarrow]

Oh yes! The fact that you don't pick up ammo from a cannon (and have to drop yours first and trade) is a quick fix for the first duplication bug. But that itself might change the game. I did not get a chance to DOSbox the behavior, so I'm not sure what D2 used to do -- whether you didn't pick up the ammo, or whether it had the duplication bug.

I do know that not picking up the ammo is the way D1 handles it (well, actually, it's worse -- you can't drop your vulcan. Once you pick up a crappy one, you are stuck with it), which is encouraging. But it is not my intent to make D2 like D1 without good reason.

So yeah, input from the D2 crowd needed on that issue, too!

[CDarrow]

Per feedback from Rethink at CCDL -- let's try including an option for (3).

[CDarrow]

Gauss Ammo Style option included in 1.4.X1 -- you can choose between the three described modes.

[roncli]

@CDarrow I'm guessing we can close this?

[CDarrow]

Nope. I thought we had consensus in D2, but the original behavior is desired as an option, and I haven't done that yet.