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BeeStation
Some Medical item accessibility adjustments
About The Pull Request
This does the following:
- Removes health analyzers from every medkit excepting the one doctors spawn with.
- Moves health analyzers from normal to premium in the medical vendors, and restricts supply to 2 instead of 4.
- Fills the empty space in the medkit with items that would make sense to be there.
- Removes the god-awful randomness of radiation kits, and makes them actually an effective medical kit.
- Moves some other resources around in medkits, nothing major.
Why It's Good For The Game
Health Analyzers are the single most powerful tool that medical has access to, they are immensely valuable and advanced devices able to note and document nearly every malady that a body could have in less than a second. I doubt that something like that would be given out like literal hotcakes in every little medkit. The station is figuratively swimming in them, that's bad imo. Additionally, the radiation kit was more joke than helpful, which is very annoying since radiation is probably the single worst thing someone can have. It's so damn slow to scrub out. This will restrict them to only places where the mappers have placed them(robotics mostly), and the medbay's personnel.
Points of note:
- For the medbay, this won't change anything(except clutter), as every doctor starts with an analyzer by default.
- Some of the new supplies are things that really ought to have been included.
- This effectively moves first aid kits into just that, kits that have stuff to stabilize and treat rudimentary damage.
- Other kits are now more of a resource cache for medicines related to the noted damage type.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots&Videos
First Aid Kit:
Included Items: Gauze, Bruise Pack x2, Ointment x2, Epipen x2
Medical Aid Kit:
Included Items: Gauze, Bruise Pack x2, Ointment x2, Epipen x1, Basic surgery tools, Health Analyzer
Brute Treatment Kit:
Included Items: Brute Patch x4, Bicaridine Pill x7, Bruise Pack, Gauze
Burn Treatment Kit:
Included Items: Burn Patch x4, Kelotane Pill x7, Ointment x2
Toxin Treatment Kit:
Included Items:Antitox Syringe x4, Calomel Syringe, Diphenhydramine Syringe, Charcoal Pill x7
Oxy Treatment Kit:
Included Items: Salbutamol Pill x7, Epipen x3, Dexalin Medpen x3
Radiation Treatment Kit:
Included Items: Radiation+ Pill x2, Potassium Iodide Pill x2, Charcoal Pill x7, Pentetic Acid Pill x7, Radiation Treatment Deluxe Pill
Changelog
:cl: del: Removed old Health Analyzers from most medkits and made them less accessible in vendor. tweak: Tweaked some Medkit Items. add: Health analyzers now have their own research nodes and need to be unlocked. /:cl:
Unless i missed a PR changing it, you can very easily print them from every autolathe no ? Probably should tackle this as well
Unless i missed a PR changing it, you can very easily print them from every autolathe no ? Probably should tackle this as well
If that's actually true it'd be really fucking stupid, that'd be like being able to print insuls.
Edit: My god it is true. Fixed
The better solution would be to remove portable scanners entirely and use stationary scanners instead. Bay (yes i know, plannedemic) has done it and it worked.
What about advanced health analyzers, what are your plans for them? CMO only? Also don't forget that MDs get a PDA cartridge that allows the PDA to function as a basic health analyzed.
I'd of liked this PR but then you removed printing them from autolathes.
The problem with autolathes is that they were not originally implemented for public use. Most of what the autolathe can print aren't things the crew should have access to, atleast not for free.
If you would please lock the health analyzer behind the autolathes security function like most of securities items that would at least be better for now until we can have a proper discussion on what should be done about the autolathe permanently. I don't want to be the fucking captain and have to cut down a idiot doctor just to find out what the disease killing me is.
If you would please lock the health analyzer behind the autolathes security function like most of securities items that would at least be better for now until we can have a proper discussion on what should be done about the autolathe permanently. I don't want to be the fucking captain and have to cut down a idiot doctor just to find out what the disease killing me is.
You should think about asking said doctor. I'll prolly move it to the security function.
About the advanced scanner and PDA cartridge scanners: Out of scope. This is just to cut down on the analyzer spam we've been subjected to by them being stuffed into every minor medikit.
Maybe I'll tackle the concept of analyzers as a whole later, in that case i'd probably remove them fully and replace them with a sleeper-esque full body scanner that takes time to scan someone, with the cmo still getting the advanced one as a head accessory. Frankly that feels like it should really be part of a wide-reaching medical overhaul, which im neither qualified for nor interested in doing.
Thank you for taking my suggestion. That way if there is an emergency we can still get access to them as crew. Like I said I do agree that not every kit out there should have one considering how useful they are.
If you want to work on the full body scanner after this, that would also be a welcome change. I'd suggest Pring that before outright removing the handhelds as I think there is room for discussion with what to do with the basic version. Another PR aims to downgrade the effectiveness of the basic health analyzer and combined with this it may be enough.
I do also agree that a complete medical rework is required due to the change in nature of beestation. Antags aren't allowed to just kill everyone they want and a lot of medical currently does completely imbalances things to the side of the crew. IMO it's not realistic nor is it fair to the antags that a corpse that's been dead for an hour can so easily be revived or that they can't get a kill in the first place because the 2 parameds have nothing to do all shift but monitor suit sensors and validhunt.
Thank you for taking my suggestion. That way if there is an emergency we can still get access to them as crew. Like I said I do agree that not every kit out there should have one considering how useful they are.
If you want to work on the full body scanner after this, that would also be a welcome change. I'd suggest Pring that before outright removing the handhelds as I think there is room for discussion with what to do with the basic version. Another PR aims to downgrade the effectiveness of the basic health analyzer and combined with this it may be enough.
I do also agree that a complete medical rework is required due to the change in nature of beestation. Antags aren't allowed to just kill everyone they want and a lot of medical currently does completely imbalances things to the side of the crew. IMO it's not realistic nor is it fair to the antags that a corpse that's been dead for an hour can so easily be revived or that they can't get a kill in the first place because the 2 parameds have nothing to do all shift but monitor suit sensors and validhunt.
I believe Ruko has a draft on a medical rework so we'll have to see if he starts or places a bounty
In any case, if the doctor ends up losing his health-scanner and the two vendors are out what's his best chance to adquire a new one? I'd say the vendors should keep the x4 instead of the x2 just to prevent this scenario tbh, and well i have no complaints since advanced health scanner is still obtainable, fully removing/tweaking it would need to be tackled on another PR
I hope someone is working on a medical rework as the current medical is cringe. I have ideas myself on how to fix it but I don't think any medical players would like what I had in mind.
I hope someone is working on a medical rework as the current medical is cringe. I have ideas myself on how to fix it but I don't think any medical players would like what I had in mind.
As someone who's been playing a lot of medical lately I'm actually curious, do tell please.
The first thing I'd do is cut the amount of medical staff. Outside of unusual circumstances we don't need all the crew that are in there. Perhaps 1 paramed, 2 chemists 2 doctor, the CMO, and a virologist is more than enough.
The suit sensors and health monitor will also need to be changed to prevent parameds from showing up to murders in progress. My idea was to make suit sensors a separate item that attaches to jumpsuits but this can be done a ton of different ways.
Another problem is the ease at which dead bodies are revived. It's gotten so bad that what they do isn't so much heal people but bring them back from the dead. I'd like to bring back hard limits on how long a body can be dead before it can't be revived. I'd say if an antag can hide the body for over 5 minutes then that person can no longer be defibbed. I'd also make cloning not count as reviving the person for the purposes of assassination objectives, as the clone is not the original person.
As for the handheld health analyzers, we should remove them completely and replace them with a scanning machine as it seems that's highly requested. The CMO would still have the advanced analyzer, but no one else would get one until the research was done.
For surgeries, I'd like to nerf the stasis beds somewhat so that they can't be used for major surgeries. It's really stupid that medical staff can guarantee perfect surgeries and game the system by doing them on a stasis bed and not a proper surgery table. I'd also make it mandatory that the subject has to be unconcious or dead in order for you to complete a surgery on them. That way an antag doctor could use the opportunity to do the funny hypno surgery or plant a bomb in them without arousing suspicions.
The first thing I'd do is cut the amount of medical staff. Outside of unusual circumstances we don't need all the crew that are in there. Perhaps 1 paramed, 2 chemists 2 doctor, the CMO, and a virologist is more than enough.
Mmm, fair, but with the recent addition of delimbers medbay can easily be overwhelmed. But delimbers are a whole another issue.
The suit sensors and health monitor will also need to be changed to prevent parameds from showing up to murders in progress. My idea was to make suit sensors a separate item that attaches to jumpsuits but this can be done a ton of different ways.
feel like I don't have enough experience to give proper input on this.
Another problem is the ease at which dead bodies are revived. It's gotten so bad that what they do isn't so much heal people but bring them back from the dead. I'd like to bring back hard limits on how long a body can be dead before it can't be revived. I'd say if an antag can hide the body for over 5 minutes then that person can no longer be defibbed. I'd also make cloning not count as reviving the person for the purposes of assassination objectives, as the clone is not the original person.
The clone change is fine I think, I myself prefer borging my assassination targets as that both counts as a kill and keeps the player in the round. However, what about other methos of revival like head/brain transplant, the Revival surgery and botany's replica pods? I'd argue all of those should be kept in as brain transplant puts you into a new body so you need more work to look like your old self, Revival requires an operating computer and by your suggestion the operating table too, and replica pods basically make you a new person too.
As for the handheld health analyzers, we should remove them completely and replace them with a scanning machine as it seems that's highly requested. The CMO would still have the advanced analyzer, but no one else would get one until the research was done.
Advanced health analyzers can be gotten within like 10-15 minutes of the start of the round if Toxins is done correctly and shaft miners don't rush megafauna and die. Hell, you don't even need miners as there's enough gold and silver in the vault to make several of them.
For surgeries, I'd like to nerf the stasis beds somewhat so that they can't be used for major surgeries. It's really stupid that medical staff can guarantee perfect surgeries and game the system by doing them on a stasis bed and not a proper surgery table. I'd also make it mandatory that the subject has to be unconcious or dead in order for you to complete a surgery on them. That way an antag doctor could use the opportunity to do the funny hypno surgery or plant a bomb in them without arousing suspicions.
Hmm, hard no on ALL surgeries requiring the patient to be unconscious or dead. For one this buffs xenomorphs by making it that much harder to remove embryos in people who are still alive and far away from medbay. For two this would require you to inject copious amouns of Morphine into your patient to do mouth surgery for the breathing tube implant, as the anesthetics mask covers up the face. And abusing Morphine feels like medical malpractice more than anything. I'd argue organ manipulation on anything but the head, mouth and eyes, wound tending, blood filtering, prosthetics replacement, removal of embedded objects and maybe augmentation (because robotics doesn't get anesthetics at all and they should be the ones doing augmenting/implants) should stay, but have everything else require the patient to be dead/unconscious.
The clone change is fine I think, I myself prefer borging my assassination targets as that both counts as a kill and keeps the player in the round. However, what about other methos of revival like head/brain transplant, the Revival surgery and botany's replica pods? I'd argue all of those should be kept in as brain transplant puts you into a new body so you need more work to look like your old self, Revival requires an operating computer and by your suggestion the operating table too, and replica pods basically make you a new person too.
I'm not sure about the details specifically. Pod cloning would also count as a successful assassination. As for brain transplants we'd need to do something to entirely prevent that as an option if it's attempted beyond the 5 minutes as that's an even worse problem than just doing necromancy as it allows someone that an antag went to the extra effort to make sure they stayed dead can be revived and still tell the authorities who killed them and how. It's very meta and game breaking and I wish more med players got bwoinked for it.
Borging is a terrible option because while they do count as a successful assassination, the brain still belongs to the person you killed and is probably very salty you did that. If you can't immediately emag them onto your side or if anyone hears them yelling about how you killed them prior to you emagging the borg you're compromised. Even if you DO emag it onto your side when it gets captured and the brain is removed they can explain how what happened and get cloned, not only failing the objective but also getting the fuzz onto you and making the target a lot more cautious since they know you need them dead.
Advanced health analyzers can be gotten within like 10-15 minutes of the start of the round if Toxins is done correctly and shaft miners don't rush megafauna and die.
This is a balancing issue that exists outside of medical and not specific to medical.
Hmm, hard no on ALL surgeries requiring the patient to be unconscious or dead. For one this buffs xenomorphs by making it that much harder to remove embryos in people who are still alive and far away from medbay. For two this would require you to inject copious amouns of Morphine into your patient to do mouth surgery for the breathing tube implant, as the anesthetics mask covers up the face. And abusing Morphine feels like medical malpractice more than anything.
When's the last major surgery you had done where they kept you awake and gave you nothing to numb the pain? There are a lot of mechanics related to antag med that require the patient to be unable to resist and this would enable that to happen without the victims player having to be a willing participant. Xenomorphs can be tweaked to reflect this new meta, or perhaps people will learn to be more careful and actually put fucking helmets on when they're ordered to. Morphine can also be adjusted to be a proper pain reliever to allow for surgeries without having to give them enough to completely knock them out or OD them.
To be honest this is a good PR, everything seems in check, even if this may pave the way, in the future, for an health analyser lite (where it is just one step above the current health analyser, maybe just indicating the damage with just the condition on the limb without any specific number). But overall, while it seems good, I feel it might need a Testmerge before going forward with this; just to see how things would play out before committing to this.
I was on board until you removed the ability to print them from autolathes, like what? Why can medbay only print them from hacked autholathes that makes 0 sense. Put them under a research node instead
Add health analyzers as/to a research node
took me a bit to figure out how, but this ought to be good. I've moved advanced and normal medscanners into two nodes, normal medscanners have advanced biotech as prerequisite and cost 5k, and advanced medscanners need posibrains and medscanner nodes unlocked first, at 5k as well.
On the balance of this, I agree that health analyzers are far too common and far too powerful - having freely accessible items that can tell you everything wrong with someone is boring. This is a good fix in the meantime without a full medical overhaul - doctors get what they need to do their job, and medical scanners actually become somewhat valuable.
Considering they can be printed from a lathe, and the self aware trait lets you medical scanner yourself pretty much whenever, I'm not sure how much this will ultimately change.
They can't be printed anymore, you need a tech node.
EDIT: Tech node should be added to CL @Absolutely-Steph
They can't be printed anymore, you need a tech node.
EDIT: Tech node should be added to CL @Absolutely-Steph
woops, fixed.
Considering they can be printed from a lathe, and the self aware trait lets you medical scanner yourself pretty much whenever, I'm not sure how much this will ultimately change.
The pure damage readings are the least useful part of the health analyzer. You can tell that with the medical exam button on your medhuds, or just by examining them. The info that's actually only available to analyzers is the important bit. Traumas, Bloodlevel/type, and reagents.
For reference, this is what the trait does:
Love this change, next up is addressing the fact that every doctor starts with a PDA capable of doing a full medscan
sure i could do that, i'm unsure how i could lower the information though. I'm thinking you get bloodtype+level, damages, and maybe traumas. no organ readouts or reagents(which you're not getting now either).
No no, PDAs are being removed anyway, I'm just mentioning it as a future PR
I thought the entire point of SS13 from a lore perspective is that we were first and foremost a research station. It's a bit odd you put it that way that we are buying the research from them when we are supposed to be the ones doing the research.
NT is of course right for not providing us the designs, how could I ever question our corporate benefactors.