BeeStation-Hornet
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BeeStation
Adds two new station traits concerning silicons. Roundstart AI is now a positive trait.
About The Pull Request
Adds two new positive traits for the station:
- Experimental AI (roundstart AI)
- Additional roundstart borgs (3 instead of 1)
The AI is no longer a default roundstart omniscient entity. Borgs can latejoin again.
Why It's Good For The Game
I will divide this section into two parts: borgs and AIs.
Borgs Some borg players said they would like to be a part of a borg team from the start and solve the dilemma when several departments need a borg. While increasing the default number of borgs would be a problem, the trait system provides some inconsistency for it to be a fun changer for a round.
AIs This is a whole another can of worms. We all constantly rely on the AI. It opens doors for us, calls the shuttle for us, tracks our vitals (when we don't forget to max our sensors) and it is a priceless tool when chasing down criminals, very few of whom can evade an omniscient highly protected creature locked away under three locks and seven chains.... Oh, wow. Good game design. Especially after #6795 was merged. Now to subvert this omniscient being as an antag, you need to either go really loud or murder one of 3 people who could get upload codes, and only after that can you access the upload itself, that nobody wants anyone to enter. I am not even talking about what a single assistant with a bag full of analyzers can do to an AI camera network. You will never hide from it after that. Not unless you are a traitor with an agent card or a changeling. The guaranteed omniscient and omnipresent AI makes SS13 less of a murder mystery and more of a Hollywood action movie. Besides, the station has all the resources to build an AI should they really need one. To compensate for the lack of your favorite doorknob, the station will get one guaranteed borg whether roundstart or latejoined. A player that needs to actually come over to open a door also improves interaction with the personnel, with whom you will need to negotiate/come up with an excuse instead of Law 2ing.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots&Videos
Default state of the AI sat.
AI getting appointed roundstart when the trait is present - successful. AI latejoining when the trait is present - successful. AI cores absent when trait is not present - successful. Unable to start round as AI when trait is not present - successful. Multiple cyborgs available for latejoin when trait is present - successful.
Changelog
:cl: add: Added a positive trait that increases the number of possible roundstart cyborgs. add: Added a positive trait that enables a roundstart AI. del: Roundstart AI is no longer a default feature. tweak: Cyborgs can latejoin again. /:cl:
Very good, but will unfortunately never go through because the players whose favorite role is AI won't ever realise how bad it is for the game.
As much as the AI is the biggest fun killing role in the game and often ruins rounds by immediately outingnthe threat before any gameplay can develop, I highly doubt this will get in.
This pr doesnt stop ais from existing at all since RD can just make one so im not sure why people are complaining.
As much as the AI is the biggest fun killing role in the game and often ruins rounds by immediately outingnthe threat before any gameplay can develop, I highly doubt this will get in.
I can up the weight to 10 if you think that 5 is too rare.
As Teoman says, the RD starts with all of the things to make a roundstart AI in his office. AI players will merely be inconvenienced by 5 minutes.
This also leaves the now empty AI satellite as a large but useless part of the station.
I think this PR needs more changes if it's to even be considered, I'm completely fine with removing the roundstart AI, AI satellite, and AI resources from roundstart. However changes need to be made to compensate, such as the gravity generator APC being unaffected by power blackouts, probably some others I havent thought about.
I also think Bacon's more moderate approach of merely nerfing the AI's anti-antag abilities will mostly solve this problem while still letting AI player get to be your virtual doorknob, which is probably a better solution anyways.
It delays the all powerful being from being created, however it will still get created after 10-15 minutes and then the problems will continue from there. Also removes malf AI from the game.
Technically midround malf on dynamic with an ion event is still possible, but rarer than it already is (extremely rare)
It may come as a surprise but I like this one. Instead of knee capping the AIs ability to function, let's just not have one at round start. This would make some traitor objectives easier while not getting rid of the role entirely. We could also use the AI sat for something else and put the AI in the upload or something.
What the AI really needs is a major rework. I plan on making a list of things I'd like to see as an AI player and see what other people on the forum think about it.
It delays the all powerful being from being created, however it will still get created after 10-15 minutes and then the problems will continue from there. Also removes malf AI from the game.
No, it doesn't, just makes it quite rare. Maybe I could crank the malf chance up, since it is an "experimental" AI?
You can't do that either because the crew will start being paranoid and meta game when an AI exists round start. You'd also have to hide law 0 on the intellicard and add a blurb somewhere saying borgs shouldn't snitch on their AI if their brain gets removed from their body. If you want to do that then fine, but that's a lot of work.
We already don't see malf AI that often and quite frankly it's busted. Malf is limited by what the crew does or does not do, and once its found out it can be relatively easy to deal with if you know how. The AIs round could also be ruined by an overly enthusiastic Borg who tries to go on a killing spree simply because it has law 0.
AI is an important part of the game. If there is someone willing to play it, it should be present. Having it roundstart ensures evryone gets an equal shot as with all other jobs, instead of who can convince the roboticist the fastest. (ingoring why their character would choose to be come an enslaved metal box in the first place)
Like llol111 had said, having a roundstart AI always gives everyone who wants to play AI a fair chance. Please don't make a round-start AI rare.
I'm almost of the opinion AI should be whitelisted considering how people abuse the role. Sometimes I strongly consider killing the AI myself as non human command because the asimov AI devides to be antagonistic.
Replace trait type with negative (station has no AI) and this has a mild chance in hell of passing.
Otherwise you're removing AI from any round that isn't in EU waking hours full stop.
If there is someone willing to play it, it should be present.
Then why don't we have Syndi Comms agent, Golems and Ashwalkers as 100% spawns at the start of every round? These certainly are fun and bring a great dynamic to the game in their own way. Could even apply this to Nukies.
Imo as an AI player I'd just like to see the AI just removed completely. While it's a fun role, it's not necessary for one to exist and actually causes more problems than most any other role on the station.
The pros to removing it would greatly outweigh the cons and make the rounds more interesting. It would also end the eternal debate on how to balance it without making the AI unfun or useless.
We can even replace the role with "beebot" an NPC AI that sits in the sat for stealing purposes and says things automatically like the AI does in CSM.
No no, cyborgs are manageable more or less. It's the AI that poses major balancing problems. Cyborgs are fun to interact with occasionally and if we didn't have an AI we'd have to have someone who's be able to enable our hijinks.
I had an interesting idea of having a cyborg dock similar to the recharger that would allow a cyborg to act as an AI so long as its docked. That way any Borg could "be" the AI or take turns while also being able to be mobile.
Things would change significantly. For one, subverting the "ai" would simply require accessing a borg as it runs around. Dealing with a subverted "ai" would be much simpler, and this would allow the "ai" player the ability to personally solve problems across the station rather than relying on the crew or other borgs that refuse to obey you. We'd also be able to do a malf borg antag instead of AI which we'd be able to start talking about implementing once the AIs gone.
This goes nowhere. I hoped people would suggest actual changes I could implement, but it is just sitting here, collecting dust.
The server just got some new trial maintainers to help keep things moving. Might be worth asking one of them.
Things definitely aren't going to move fast anytime soon though.
I personally think that AI in its current state is a problem
If there's nothing going on, you can do nothing but be a doorknob unless the crew triesto actually RP with you
But if there's shit going down, it's sensory overload of trying to micromanage your shell, doorknobbing, tracking people because sec can't do it themselves, and checking on your core from time to time to avoid fucking dying to some idiot with some EMP grenades and a few beakers or thermite
I personally think that AI in its current state is a problem
If there's nothing going on, you can do nothing but be a doorknob unless the crew triesto actually RP with you
But if there's shit going down, it's sensory overload of trying to micromanage your shell, doorknobbing, tracking people because sec can't do it themselves, and checking on your core from time to time to avoid fucking dying to some idiot with some EMP grenades and a few beakers or thermite
This is exactly why I enjoy playing AI. The suffering is fun.
This goes nowhere. I hoped people would suggest actual changes I could implement, but it is just sitting here, collecting dust.
@St0rmC4st3r then you missed an actual unironic change suggested
Replace trait type with negative (station has no AI) and this has a mild chance in hell of passing.
Otherwise you're removing AI from any round that isn't in EU waking hours full stop.
Everything else in this thread is just QQ about this point.
The implications of making it a negative trait mean that instead of AI being rare, AI not existing becomes a rare occurence that can actually happen without nobody wanting to play AI that round (and one latejoining 5 minutes later anyway).
This avoids the PR turning into a partisan issue as we've seen thus far.