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BeeStation
Engineering Goggles set to T-ray can now see wires when hacking.
About The Pull Request
- Engineering goggles now reveal wires when hacking objects without random wires or airlocks
- Engineers (including chief) now spawn with engineering goggles
Why It's Good For The Game
Major QoL improvement for engineers that softens the effects of #6920 and makes it easier to do their job in the wake of the changes it brought. Also adds a new angle for antagonists to approach greytiding when they want or need to.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots&Videos
T-ray mode active:
Not in T-ray mode:
Changelog
:cl: add: Engineering goggles now reveal wires when in T-ray mode. tweak: Engineers, including the chief engineer, now spawn with engineering goggles equipped instead of in their lockers. Other Loose spawns are unchanged. /:cl:
@FortSumter yo
Not quite spot on for the discussion we had, but this should help substantially.
What about the normal T-ray? Other than that, looking forward to this!
no need to make engineers spawn with engi goggles since every engineer locker spawns with a pair+ there's also engivend
Chief engineer now spawns with insulated gloves
they have gloves in locker
tweak: Chief Engineer now spawns with insulated gloves instead of black ones
Does he?
no need to make engineers spawn with engi goggles since every engineer locker spawns with a pair+ there's also engivend
I took the spawns out of the locker in place of equipping them on the engineers from the start. This ensures engineers don't have to worry about having none available because they were all stolen on late join.
If you could also make some interaction with the handheld t ray scanner that would be nice. Maybe make it take 15 seconds for the person to scan the door or something. This way normal crew can hack doors again but there's a static minimum time required to do it. This would keep the game balanced while also solving the problem you wanted to fix with the random wires.
If you could also make some interaction with the handheld t ray scanner that would be nice.
Working out the details of what exactly to do with it still, but it is planned. Was originally going to be part of this PR, but I hit a big enough bump that I decided pushing this as-is was better than waiting until I found a way to apply a similar usage to the handheld one.
This does however have the interesting side effect of making these glasses even more sought after for tiding than insulated gloves, considering they not only let you freely hack a door but let you see every single wire and what it does, making hacking instant. Also the fact that these are infinitely printable while insulated gloves aren't could make them a bit too powerful.
Honestly, I think this is too powerful. I think the T-Ray scanner should have a 5 second cooldown use in which it can be used to check if a wire will shock you, or instead have something that can reveal how the wires operate for a single device after a scanning period and is not easilly accessible.
I can make it so they aren't printable as a part of the PR if you would like? Engineers + CE spawn with a pair + about three spawns located in the map itself. This ensure engineers that may need them always have access, but also ensures there are some extras available for stealing.
Make additional ones orderable via Cargo similar to insuls?
They are only printable at the engineering lathe which is one of the hardest to break into on most maps and it requires a specific research that rnd doesnt usually go for. The way it is at least makes it so no one outside engineering staff will get one for at least 30 minutes unless its rushed over more important research. This is about the time jaws of life would be researched, which would give anyone who got one psudeo AA anyway.
The idea was to effectively give the skillchip ability to engineers by adding it to an item they typically use in order to balance the stupid and unrealistic random door wires.
I'd prefer if there were none available outside engineering at round start, meaning you will either have to be an engineer, bribe an engineer for a pair, break into engineering and bust a locker, or kill an engineer to get a pair before 30 min. This gives antags a reason to antag if they want psudeo AA and not spend their bad boy points on it.
@PowerfulBacon see post above: I can make them non printable if that will sway you?
I'd prefer if there were none available outside engineering at round start, meaning you will either have to be an engineer, bribe an engineer for a pair, break into engineering and bust a locker, or kill an engineer to get a pair before 30 min. This gives antags a reason to antag if they want psudeo AA and not spend their bad boy points on it.
That is currently how it is and I kinda agreed tbh, although I don't think the engi lathe is particularly hard to get to as you're saying. Goggles tell you the wires, but you will still need other tools on top of not having sunglasses while you're using them on a door.
I don't think the engi lathe is particularly hard to get to
I would have to look at the station webmaps to be certain, but on most maps I can think of besides Box the lathe is locked behind at least 2 sets of doors with no wall adjacent to a maintenance corridor, which means you will be breaking into engineering from an obvious main hall just to get in the lathe room, and all of the engineering staff pass it on their way out of their departments main door. The lathe is both difficult to reach and highly visible, making it more difficult to get to than even securities lathe on some maps.
If they were kept printable there would be no way in hell you'd get a pair without a massive amount of risk involved unless you are an antag and have something like an emag, in which case I can't understand why you'd want the goggles to begin with.
I don't know, I just think they are way too powerful and that wouldn't change if they weren't printable. I think there should be a safe way to hack, but it should be time consuming. This is both 100% safe and instant.
Bacon. This is literally what the engineering skillships were meant to do, and something that is absolutely necessary for engineers to have now that all door wiring is random. If you didn't want people to go down this road you should have considered how making all the doors wires random would effect game balance.
The silicon ability to bolt closed doors is now one of the most powerful abilities in the game. It can catch you between two sets of doors and even if you're an engineer and have the tools to hack your way out, you might as well deconstruct the door outright as that's easier than figuring out what the bolt wire is.
It makes no sense to have destroying a door be more efficient than forcing it open.
I don't actually have a problem with the door balance right now. I think it is better balanced as fully randomised, since it means a consistent hacking time for all doors rather than instant hacks. The only balance changes that I would want is a slow but safe way to hack open doors, for example using TRay scanner to activate the door safely but with a 5 second cooldown. Currently engineers can still reasonably deconstruct doors, they just have to pulse until the door breaks and then crowbar it without power almost the same as before, except they have to find the power wire first.
As a player I still viciously hate the random door wires. It's just too easy for silicons to lock you out/ in rooms and makes it mandatory for antags to buy a method of bypassing the door. If you're a BB or rev you are f u c k e d. I understand it had to be done for game balance, but if we don't have some kind of method, you've just tipped the scales the other way AND made doors a pain in the ass for engineers.
This is a good change for balance, it lets engineers actually do their jobs and offers antags a way to hack doors while still not easily obtainable roundstart (you can't get the goggles in public tool storage like you can insuls, tools, etc.)
Yes, as an engineer, I find it a lot easier to deconstruct a door with an RCD than try to fix the mess that is its wires if somebody tampered with it. Or I'd just call a borg to fix it, because they can actually interface with doors in a sensible manner.
My thoughts on the balance of this PR: It lets engineers actually do their job without begging a silicon to fix the door (good) It adequately controls the ability for greytiders to obtain said item, while still allowing antags the opportunity (good) Anyone who desires said item would probably be better off getting insuls and then spamming wirecut until they bolt it, then use a multitool unbolt, cut everything else. Getting the goggles is not easy.
The door randomization exists to prevent tiding being so easy - which it achieved. But it failed to consider that doors do need to be fixed and the wires need to be usable.
Door wires have unique functions, engineers NEED to have a way to find out which is which - just having a T-ray open a door is not enough. It should also be EASIER for an engineer to fix a door than it is for someone to hack it broken. Right now, an engineer has to spend SIGNIFICANTLY more time to fix a door, and is much better off just removing the circuit board and reinstalling than attempting any sort of wire-based repairs.
I think the effects of this change on non-engineering is very minor. Perhaps it could stay randomized on command or high security doors?
(probably) op as hell, the only other two items in the game that let you see wires are CE's blueprints and the abductors multitool, iffy as it being available roundstart to every engineer and random people that break into engineering, but it would be cool as a thing that can be researched
It's not a case if its OP or not, but if its necessary and it is thanks to random door wires. The engineers should have a reliable method to hack doors as it's part of their job, and this will make it easier for noob engis while also giving antags a tool to make hacking feasible. As for the tools that have this function already, the blueprints are CE only and has other functions and the abductor tool is necessary for their antag. Personally I wouldn't of approved the fucking stupid random door wires to begin with, but here we are.
It's not necessary, random door wires do not make it so you require tools to see all the wires. Random door wires make the time to hack on all doors relatively high, however if you have insulated gloves it is still trivial to hack a door open, or fix a door. Looking at it, random wires were a pretty good choice for balance considering that hacking now becomes a time consuming process rather than free access to all places on the station after you test 1 random door. The only thing I think that should be changed, is that I think hacking should be made safer, IE hacking is a time consuming process but without gloves you won't get shocked as often as you do now.
I'm putting a close key on this, since I think making an item that can instantly determine all wires in a door when worn with no cooldown defeats the purpose of having random wire doors. I think something like having the T-Ray scanner have the ability to test what a wire does without pulsing it on a cooldown would be a better solution, since it would allow engineers to determine which wire they need to pulse and allow anyone with the tool a guaranteed but slow way to get through non-reinforced doors.
Another option I've been made aware of from other servers if you still insist on keeping this fucking stupid random door wiring (as it is indeed both unrealistic and fucking stupid) would be to make it so the doors don't shock at all when hacking or when breaking the door down and give textual indications of what pulsing the wire did like it does when you hack MULEs. This would make hacking a door more like a minigame than the most fucking annoying thing to ever exist. Itd also give people with hulk, simple mobs, and anyone with a sufficiently powerful weapon the ability to just destroy the door without harming themself, as all the does is limit fun.
Branch will stay up if anyone else wants to modify or push this, but one key is enough for me to take it off the to-do list.