BeeStation-Hornet
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BeeStation
Lavaland Gateway travel
About The Pull Request
- Replaces the unused smelting room on lavaland with a gateway room
- Adds gateway access to shaft miners
- Provides miners access to some discovery scanners in case they feel like being especially helpful
- Loosely accommodates "public" mining by providing some extra, but inferior mining gear on the lavaland side of the gateway.
- Swaps around several of the starting kits for miners a bit
Asteroid Miner Kit: For the miner that wants to vibe on asteroids
- Mining Hardsuit
- O2 Tank
- Jaunter
Crusher Kit: For the warrior
- Kinetic Crusher
- Pocket Extinguisher
Survivalist Kit For the Miner that really likes not dying
- Survival Capsule
- Wormhole Jaunter
- Stabilizer for regenerative cores
Minebot Kit For the miner with no friends
- Mining bot
- Welding Tool
- Welding mask
- Minebot mod for walking through the mob
- Minebot sentience mod
Miner Conscription Kit For the miner with a friend
- Dufflebag
- Pickaxe
- Resonator
- Mesons
- Mining scanner
- Ore bag
- Explorer suit
- Cargo encryption key
- Explorer Gas Mask
- Mining Access Card
Note: The tiny two-tile closet on the lavaland base has been removed to prevent weird double walls. The only thing it had in it was a water tank (now in the gateway room) and a heater (now in the atmos room).
Additional note: To prevent a repeat of past mistakes, ashwalkers and megafauna are forbidden from gateway access on the lavaland side
Why It's Good For The Game
One of the biggest complaints by miners who oppose being forced to turn in ores is the amount of time wasted traveling to and from the station. This allows instant travel to and from the station, at the cost of a longer walk to turn in your ores instead.
Asteroid miner kit helps keep the shuttle relevant and adds another option for roundstart miners, especially those who just kinda like to chill instead of facing anything challenging.
Smelting room is unused, so nothing of value is lost by replacing it Gateway content has been unused for so long, and with no plans to make use of them on the horizon I think it is safe to call "abandoned" content.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
(lowercase g in gateway on this last message now)
(inside of conscription kit bag)
Gateway pamphlet updated to suit the new primary purpose.
Changelog
:cl: PerishedFraud, Kalavi Lumen, Rukofamicom add: Station gateways have been adapted for use by Shaft Miners. The old smelting room has been demolished to make for faster travel between station and lavaland, and miners and quartermasters will find that they now have gateway access. The mining shuttle remains available for asteroid mining or just if you feel like being old fashioned. tweak: Gateways no longer have a delay to start and no longer check for that delay to be set. Station and lavaland gateways both require power and to be turned on (which they are at roundstart) to function. Currently unused away mission gates bypass this requirement and will still allow one-way transport back to the station. tweak: All miner kits aside from the crusher kit have been slightly enhanced and/or renamed. tweak: Gateway pamphlets have had their contents updated. Give one a read! /:cl:
TO DO:
- ~~Block megafauna from entering the gateway~~
- ~~Rename doors by lavaland gateway to "Gateway" instead of processing~~
- ~~Fix inconsistent normal glass windows to be reinforced like the others (not my doing, but I'mma fix it)~~
Alright, this one should be good to go. Hopefully the bots will stop warring over whether or not it's a config update soon.
I get that miners like their job being made easier, but I feel this will trivialize lavaland.
If transport between the station and lavaland becomes instantaneous, there is no distance between them anymore. The mining base is just another part of the station and lavaland is just outside.
The shuttle transport provided opportunities for many interesting situations. For example, security having to carefully equip for an expedition and perhaps bring along additional support personnel due to the lack of station resources. Or antagonists setting up a base on lavaland where any security response will be delayed.
These all go away if there is an instantaneous and invincible method of transport between the mining base and station. Security can instantly respond to any issue on lavaland and there is little means of stopping it as the gateway itself is indestructible.
I think some form of ore teleporter like a long range ORM replacing the smelter would be a far better idea. It would keep the distance without requiring miners to travel back and forth all the time. Before ore silo links were locked to a single Z level, miners would often drag the ORM to lavaland for this purpose and that was fine.
If transport between the station and lavaland becomes instantaneous, there is no distance between them anymore. The mining base is just another part of the station and lavaland is just outside.
I fail to see any issue with this whatsoever. One of my biggest motivations for wanting mining to be removed is how it is almost entirely removed from the round and inaccessible to the rest of the server. How isolated miners are from contact with almost anyone.
Miners getting faster transport to and from the station and needing/getting to walk across it now and then helps with this a lot and also cuts down on their biggest complaint: Sitting with nothing to do for more than 60 seconds multiple times per shift as part of their normal routine to turn in ores.
These all go away if there is an instantaneous and invincible method
Gateway can be destroyed by luring megafauna to the base to smash it. It's not invincible.
For example, security having to carefully equip for an expedition
You can't breathe on lavaland without equipment. Emergency tanks are a pretty risky choice prone to leaving you collapsed somewhere.
making miners part of round dynamics is good. i don't understand how being part of the crew is a negative in any way. in fact it's something i often hear should apply to all jobs.
- ~Block megafauna from entering the gateway~
Emag gateway to allow megafauna? I just like a little bit of chaos.
Emag gateway to allow megafauna?
Or just... use the shuttle like every other ~~griefer~~ definitely legitimate antagonist with murderbone objectives.
This is a great idea. For a long time I've felt that mining is too detached from the station, also making 90% of the mining station only usable for cult.
What about ashlizards though? Can't they freely raid the station using this?
Alright, I understand your other points, but.
Gateway can be destroyed by luring megafauna to the base to smash it. It's not invincible.
Maybe add another method to disable the gateway. Some sort of "emergency shutdown" that could be initiated at either side by anyone with bridge access or willing to hack the gateway and cut some wires.
With a shutdown method, I think it would be fine. Megafauna being able to destroy it doesn't really count as most players would be unable to achieve this and at that point you're also destroying significant portions of the mining base.
With another means of shutdown I think these changes would be fine, the gateway would be a convenience while still allowing lavaland to be useful to antagonists by disabling the gateway.
Didn't think about ashies, but it's honestly whatever. The rules say they shouldn't leave. They can already leave using the jaunter in the sci base. I assume the gateway will reject them, but even if it doesn't, i don't think anyone but particularly zealous admins would care unless the ashie focuses on griefing (a completely different issue from just going up).
Maybe add another method to disable the gateway. Some sort of "emergency shutdown"
I don't like the idea specifically because it's motivated as a huge buff to cult while you're framing it like I'm trying to nerf them. Security organizing to go to lavaland is currently on par with cult organizing to go to lavaland - there's a reason most cults don't bother going to lavaland currently. You're asking me to make it easy for cults while keeping it hard for security.
I'll look into making it easier to destroy/disable on principle though.
What about ashlizards though? Can't they freely raid the station using this?
Ye didn't even read the description man!
Additional note: To prevent a repeat of past mistakes, ashwalkers and megafauna are forbidden from gateway access on the lavaland side
I don't like the idea specifically because it's motivated as a huge buff to cult while you're framing it like I'm trying to nerf them...
In my opinion this is a nerf to cults as cults previously only had to have a teleport rune on lavaland to teleport between them. The power of instant transportation between lavaland and the station was restricted to cults who placed a rune on lavaland. Now security can do so as well so an advantage the cult had is gone.
Alright, I had a talk, I'm happy with this now.
My concern was based on mining base cults being nerfed too hard by having instant transport to that location. Now the gateway requires power to function so I think its fine.
All I need now is to do something about all these away mission pamphlets without leaving ugly empty space on a table.
Ye didn't even read the description man!
When you think there is nothing interesting about changes in mining kits so you skip the whole section to 'Why it's good for the game' 😳
My concern was based on mining base cults being nerfed too hard by having instant transport to that location. Now the gateway requires power to function so I think its fine.
Nothing against gateway requiring power but weren't the cults already obltierated by making runes unable to be drawn on lavaland?
What exactly is our situation with mining cults right now? Could you draw runes on shuttle while its on station, sabotage the station console, take it down, sabotage the remaining consoles, and thus get a lavaland base anyway? Could you draw a tile on a space used for a custom shuttle (easily built using the appropriate cargo kit), send it down for a random drop and thus get a base?
Hmm. I feel these are questions best saved for later. Now you've given me interesting things to test.
Shuttles prevent runes. All Z-levels other than lavaland and station prevent runes. That's my understanding of it. If cults were ever made unable to make runes on lavaland entirely I missed it.
Shuttles prevent runes. All Z-levels other than lavaland and station prevent runes. That's my understanding of it. If cults were ever made unable to make runes on lavaland entirely I missed it.
For reference, the last time i was cult i tried making runes on lavaland and it didn't work. What exactly is happening here, along with whether or not you can make a rune on tiles and then turn those tiles into a shuttle, will be tested in a bit.
I don't like the new voucher kits (though it's likely still a better selection than we have now), because I can already see the choice boiling down to "Hardsuit kit if antag, outpost kit if newbie, crusher if robust" - minebots suck, hardsuits are way powerful, and the crusher is the crusher. I also don't like seeing the smelter be removed, because even though I agree Miners should need to take shit to the station to get points, I find the smelter useful for certain emergencies, such as making plasma to power P.A.C.M.A.N. generators when power on the station fails. People seem to think Miners being so removed from the station is a bad thing, but frankly, I think it's EXTREMELY good - BeeStation does advertise itself as "newbie-friendly", and despite all the things on lavaland that can kill you, I actually think it's a good role for newbies BECAUSE it's so cut off from the station. A newbie Botanist or Chemist can be fucked over in any number of ways, while a newbie can safely play as a Shaft Miner on all but the most apeshit Nuke Op rounds without any of the station's bullshit ruining their day.
I don't like the new voucher kits (though it's likely still a better selection than we have now), because I can already see the choice boiling down to "Hardsuit kit if antag, outpost kit if newbie, crusher if robust" - minebots suck, hardsuits are way powerful, and the crusher is the crusher.
I'm not really seeing your issue with the kits here - with the exception of the outpost capsule (because it contains a sleeper), all of the kits have collectively fairly cheap items that are easy to get by doing a little mining first. I'm not sure what's wrong with allowing for a leg up in specific directions with them and kinda thought that was why they existed in the first place. I rarely see any kit other than crusher taken currently and tbh I think the conscription kit is a decent good choice for team antags due to easily shared access to the mining base under the disguise of wanting to go help miners.
I also don't like seeing the smelter be removed, because even though I agree Miners should need to take shit to the station to get points, I find the smelter useful for certain emergencies, such as making plasma to power P.A.C.M.A.N. generators when power on the station fails.
And the mining wing will still have theirs which can still be used in this same, rare emergency situation that you have brought up.
People seem to think Miners being so removed from the station is a bad thing, but frankly, I think it's EXTREMELY good - BeeStation does advertise itself as "newbie-friendly", and despite all the things on lavaland that can kill you, I actually think it's a good role for newbies BECAUSE it's so cut off from the station. A newbie Botanist or Chemist can be fucked over in any number of ways, while a newbie can safely play as a Shaft Miner on all but the most apeshit Nuke Op rounds without any of the station's bullshit ruining their day.
Isolated roles are the antithesis of an RP game meant to be played together as a group; I could not disagree more with having an isolated role somehow being a good introduction for new players. Having your round "fucked over" by outside forces is entirely part of the game that one should get used to reacting to in appropriate manners instead of fostering this notion that outside forces acting on what you wanted to do in a round being a bad thing. RP is all about interacting with other players, and this is an RP-oriented server that needs to make changes which encourages these interactions between all roles.
Made a forum contest to replace the pamphlet I mentioned in an earlier comment.
This is good for a testmerge anytime now though - the pamphlet is just minor flavor that needs updating.
I admit you're right about the crusher kit being one of the only kits people take (honestly, for a while I didn't take ANY kits because they all sucked), and I totally failed to consider the utility of the conscription kit. To elaborate on why I think miners being isolated as a good thing - people in Space Station 13 are fucking toxic a lot of the time, and it's bad enough that I think new players deserve to have some time alone to learn the basic controls (which DO suck to learn) away from the people who'll insult them, threaten them, or just straight-up kill them. I've had - on Bee alone - a Chief Engineer threaten to kill me for not mining diamonds, a Clown turn the station into lube hell while Sec protected him from the posse that'd formed to kill him, and a random asshole pop out of a locker to put an arrow in my head. I think isolating new players from the rest of the people here is for the best. I want you to imagine actually encountering any of those people while enduring the horrible process of learning Space Station's basic controls & mechanics. The Chief Engineer (who a newbie may well assume outranks them by virtue of being a Chief) is threatening to kill you, which you may well not know is reversible, because of poor luck on your end, while you're still struggling to even see on lavaland because you need to read a damn guide to even know how a mining scanner's used and you might not know the Kinetic Accelerator fits on belts. The shuttle's been called, three weird guys with knives are going around, you're trying to get to the shuttle, and - assuming anyone even wants to tell you where Departures is - you go FLYING the moment you enter. You spend over a minute trying to get aboard while the area depressurizes (because someone broke the window), only to find the Clown's being GORED, and you have absolutely no clue how to deal with it because you don't know if the Clown was a bad guy or not. Some asshole shoots you in the head with an arrow. You don't know that untreated bleeding in Space Station 13 can easily result in death, you don't know that damage doesn't heal on its own since you can't see your damage numbers without taking a Quirk you don't know exists, and you don't even know that bleeding is a special thing that actually reduces blood volume (leading to oxyloss) and isn't just a regular damage-over-time effect as seen in many other games. You don't seek treatment, and die of blood loss later.
BeeStation players are goddamn insane, and making someone deal with them before they've even acclimated to the game's controls is a good way to get people to never play the game again.
I think new players deserve to have some time alone to learn the basic controls (which DO suck to learn) away from the people who'll insult them, threaten them, or just straight-up kill them.
I think isolating new players from the rest of the people here is for the best. I want you to imagine actually encountering any of those people while enduring the horrible process of learning Space Station's basic controls & mechanics.
Mining is in no way a job for new players, it's the exact opposite so this argument is invalid.
Chief Engineer threaten to kill me for not mining diamonds, a Clown turn the station into lube hell while Sec protected him from the posse that'd formed to kill him, and a random asshole pop out of a locker to put an arrow in my head.
What the fuck are those arguments even? So because someone wanted to kill you it means your job should be isolated from the rest? What about other jobs, which by the way, are way more newbie friendly than mining.
making someone deal with them before they've even acclimated to the game's controls
I would really wanna see all those clueless newbies picking up a miner job to learn controls lmao
Preface: Mining is a decent job for newbies if you actually stick to mining and ruins exploration. It only sucks if you're a newbie who thinks they aren't.
minebots suck, hardsuits are way powerful, and the crusher is the crusher.
minebots are very powerful, especially in groups. being underused does not make them bad. mining hardsuits are no better than explorer suits, only offering space protection, which you can get from the EVA suits in the science outpost anyway. it might be relevant for antags if they specifically want to fight in space, but even in this case, being able to stand in space isn't op without other stuff on top.
I also don't like seeing the smelter be removed, because even though I agree Miners should need to take shit to the station to get points, I find the smelter useful for certain emergencies, such as making plasma to power P.A.C.M.A.N. generators when power on the station fails.
first of all, this is too rare to count for anything. second of all, this is the engineers' job.
People seem to think Miners being so removed from the station is a bad thing, but frankly, I think it's EXTREMELY good - BeeStation does advertise itself as "newbie-friendly", and despite all the things on lavaland that can kill you, I actually think it's a good role for newbies BECAUSE it's so cut off from the station. A newbie Botanist or Chemist can be fucked over in any number of ways, while a newbie can safely play as a Shaft Miner on all but the most apeshit Nuke Op rounds without any of the station's bullshit ruining their day.
The game isn't about sitting in a room and doing your job blindly for the shift's duration. Trying to survive, fight, impede or deal with aftermath of threats (not all at the same time mind you) is part of the experience. By doing any of the secluded jobs, including mining and its 'big room', you effectively cripple your own learning of any mechanics beyond the job and ignore threats. It's even worse because threats are usually too lazy to interact with you. It's shit design, and hearing you encourage it makes me think you'd like an HRP server more.
second post
Your personal experiences and bias towards interacting with people does not reflect hwo the game is for everyone.
I would really wanna see all those clueless newbies picking up a miner job to learn controls lmao
Mining was my first job. I smashed the shuttle console stranding myself on at least three different rounds before I built the habit of putting my PKA away before trying to interact with it. 🤔
I also had nobody to explain crates to me so I went up to station and dumped my ores in a pile on the floor for a good while.
Preface: Mining is a decent job for newbies if you actually stick to mining and ruins exploration. It only sucks if you're a newbie who thinks they aren't.
This is really where the truth is. Mining is not hard - fighting bosses is hard. Fighting normal fauna is challenging for a new player at first, but not impossible, and those fights can be avoided entirely in favor of raw exploration and material gathering with minimal experience to understand aggro ranges.
Mining was my first job. I smashed the shuttle console stranding myself on at least three different rounds before I built the habit of putting my PKA away before trying to interact with it.
Okay and so mine was engineering, first round I dropped my jumpsuit and locked myself in maintenance not knowing what's going on. That doesn't mean either of them are even remotely newbie friendly. You need to know a lot about movement/mechanics/game itself in order to even think about being a miner, otherwise chances are you're just gonna keep failing miserably until you uninstall the game.