BeeStation-Hornet
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BeeStation
Replaces lawyers with Corporate Affairs Agents (CAAs)
About The Pull Request
Corporate Affairs Agents (CAAs)
- replaces lawyers (although in the code some items and the like will be referred to as lawyer things)
- manage HR, take care of complaints and disputes between people
- have basic access to all departments
- spy on people
- report space law/SOP violations to security or the respective department head
- launch investigations to resolve complaints & disputes (NOT crime scene investigations)
- attempt to resolve the complaints/disputes with the people involved first
- then take it to the department head
- then take it to the captain
- then take it to CC via fax machine
- advanced sunglasses, in addition to an all black tux outfit
- MiB/CIA agent themed
- get the galactic uncommon language at the start of the round
- start mindshielded, can't be antag
- beyond the chain of command
the fax machine sprite was taken from paradise, which in turn came from oraclestation.
the pr also splits bridge access off ACCESS_HEADS into its own thing (for the sake of letting the CAA enter the bridge without comms console access/the ability to swipe red alert)
Why It's Good For The Game
currently, lawyers don't have much to do. they have no power, as any security officer or head of staff can shut them down instantly. trials are few and far in between.
CAAs replace lawyers with the intent of acting as a counterweight for shitseccery and bad command (by being outside the chain of command), as a way to help bring light to departmental issues to heads of staff, a role to act as an hr department to settle disputes between people, and to act as a sort of corporate representative who can contact central command when the need arises.
additionally, several admins and players have voiced their support for the replacement.
a wiki page is currently in the process of being written.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots & Videos
Changelog
:cl: LemonLimeSoda, ImSynthex add: Adds the Corporate Affairs Agent, a corporate representative and human resources job add: Adds fax machines, which can be built with circuits from the sec techfab. They send messages to CentCom and can be emagged to send messages to the Syndicate. One starts in the CAA office imageadd: Adds sprites for fax machines and the CAA's sechud icon, as well as several CAA items (ID, PDA, headset, encryption key) (Courtesy of ImSynthex) tweak: Renames law offices to corporate affairs offices tweak: Renames several clothing items to accommodate for the job tweak: Splits bridge access off of head of staff access - now there is access to let you into the bridge without allowing you to use the comms console/swipe red/etc. del: Removes lawyer from roundstart jobs /:cl:
Please rename them, we already have Internal Affairs Agents as an antagonist in the code.
- have basic access to all departments
No
- spy on people
Validhunting license? Really?
- report space law/SOP violations to security or the respective department head
Something literally anyone else can already do?
- launch investigations to resolve complaints & disputes (NOT crime scene investigations)
Something the relevant head of staff should be doing, and not some third party?
attempt to resolve the complaints/disputes with the people involved first
then take it to the department head
then take it to the captain
then take it to CC via fax machine
IMO only the Captain should be the one to contact CC, and not some random hire NT has.
- also start with the "glowy" mutation latent in their DNA
Really now
- beyond the chain of command
The hell does this mean? You literally give them command comms.
IAAs replace lawyers with the intent of acting as a counterweight for shitseccery and bad command
Shitsec should be handled by the HoS. If the HoS doesn't comply, it's the Captain's duty to do their job. If the Captain also straight up refuses to do it for no real reason, it's an OOC issue and should be ahelped.
as a way to help bring light to departmental issues to heads of staff
If a head of staff is unaware of SOP violations in their department they shouldn't be a head of staff.
No
I'm assuming this is because of the rest of your grievances.
Validhunting license? Really?
This isn't a validhunting license, this is to catch SOP/space law violations to report to the relevant department head or sec. IAAs should be bwoinked for any validhunting like any other non-sec role.
Something literally anyone else can already do?
Something the relevant head of staff should be doing, and not some third party?
It's the IAA's job to launch investigations on reported SOP/Space Law violations as an unbiased third party. Heads of staff are often busy and it's helpful to have someone watch things for them.
IMO only the Captain should be the one to contact CC, and not some random hire NT has.
IAA's aren't some "random hire NT has", they're professional corporate agents meant to be thoroughly trained in space law & SOP sent by NanoTrasen themselves to keep the station in line with the corporation's interests.
This is also why they have a lengthy crew experience requirement.
Really now
Yes.
The hell does this mean? You literally give them command comms.
It is their job to report violations not only by regular crewmembers, but also by heads of staff. The IAA's loyalty ultimately lies within NanoTrasen and Central Command, and thus it is their job to report breaches of SOP/space law violations committed by the captain, as well. Hence why they are "beyond" the chain of command.
Shitsec should be handled by the HoS. If the HoS doesn't comply, it's the Captain's duty to do their job. If the Captain also straight up refuses to do it for no real reason, it's an OOC issue and should be ahelped.
Again, it's the IAA's job to report shitseccery to the HoS, who may not always be available to deal with it themself. If the HoS doesn't comply, the IAA should inform the captain and request action. If the captain refuses for no real reason, sure it can be an OOC issue. But maybe there's a grey area. Maybe the captain has a reason to not do so. Maybe the captain is breaking space law and nobody is doing anything about it. It's the IAA's job as a third-party corporate affairs agent to do something about it and get Central Command's attention on these things.
I should also mention it's the IAA's job to help the HoS and/or warden implement proper brigging procedures & pick correct sentencing times.
If a head of staff is unaware of SOP violations in their department they shouldn't be a head of staff.
Heads of staff are often busy and they might not be able to catch everything, which is where the IAA comes in.
bay, para, vg, and a handful of other servers made the change for a good reason. it takes what's otherwise a mostly completely worthless role and actually gives it an accomplishable goal which it can perform of its own volition, which it actually has the tools necessary to enforce its authority by.
the lawyer has absolutely zero authority or precedent to be respected because they have no way to imply any authority. at all. in any way, shape, or form. they are a suggestion under space law. they have no way to threaten action against a shitty HOS or a shitty Captain. they have no real way to convince other heads of staff to testify with them other than pure goodwill. they have no way to actually observe or, really, report in a meaningful way SOP violations.
IAAs having an actual weapon in their hand which they can leverage as reason why they should be listened to, giving an IC way to report abusive captains/HOS' without praying a different member of Command takes your side, and having some actual gravitas to conducting IC departmental investigations is a very, very good thing. it gives Command another layer of actual consequences to the action of being an utter shitlord that nevertheless isn't technically breaking any rules other than the idea that maybe a passing admin might decide to send a CC inspector once in a blue moon, while giving the role something to do when there isn't head-sec drama going on.
good pr 10/10 thumbs up
If the code jannies actually sign off on this (Personally I liked it on Oracle but I don't know if it'll go well on bee) then it'll still need the Internal Affairs gamemode renamed.
So, lawyer stays in code or not? If not, update the about PR section. (Also RIP my 300h as lawyer :tragedy:)
Regardless, very nice PR, looking forward to this role because being a lawyer was sometimes annoying due to shitsec taking your shit when you tried to tell them to follow the law.
So, lawyer stays in code or not? If not, update the about PR section.
nope, updating
(Also RIP my 300h as lawyer :tragedy:)
same
I'm still spectical if it will actually work, but if it does then this will be a good change. The goal should really be that if I go and start doing the biggest shitsec ever when this is done then I'll get demoted as well as being reported to the admins and banned for like a week from sec.
The concept is surely interesting and it might work, but with some improvements. I'll wait for it to be marked as ready to review to write more comments. Let's hope for the best.
This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
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gave them galactic uncommon at the recommendation of several admins - they are an HR rep so it makes sense for them to have at least one extra language handy
further polished and ready for review™
i also wrote a basic wiki page about the job at https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/User:AgentCitrus/Sandbox
I don't particularly think they need meta-protection since they don't get a lot of access or tools that would make it too powerful and their job is only to report violations rather than act on them, so they don't have any power to act like heads of staff or security; even if one was rogue they would still need to collect evidence against anyone they are accusing and since 2 are allowed, there is always a back up.
I talked about this issue with several admins and a few longtime players, and they came to the conclusion that, for a role like this, metaprotection is the way to go (for the time being at least).
Like you said, they function sort of like IC moderators. However, if shitsec is shitseccing, the CAA can't really do anything about it if they're an antag, which sort of negates their whole point. Another problem is that, from an IC perspective, they are a third-party sent straight from Central Command, which is meant to be a well-hidden corporate headquarters, and as a result their employment would be another reason they would get metaprotection.
Several admins also pointed out that, with the current state of Bee's antags and secoffs, CAA's would often get sidelined for not having metaprotection. Detective and brig physicians are ignored a lot of the time for this reason. Should be worth noting, other servers also have IAA's metaprotected.
For these reasons (and with the suggestion of the admins) I think the metaprotection should be kept for now, and after having the role for a while, it can be decided whether or not to keep their metaprotection.
IMO would be much better if this was a sort of admin spawn instead of a lawyer replacement.
This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
alright but seriously, don't remove lawyer please. you can take the office and give it to CAA if you want but bugging security and fighting for prisoner rights is one of the joys of the game.
alright but seriously, don't remove lawyer please. you can take the office and give it to CAA if you want but bugging security and fighting for prisoner rights is one of the joys of the game.
the CAA gets to nag sec about proper brigging procedure and sentencing, and keep shitsec in check
alright but seriously, don't remove lawyer please. you can take the office and give it to CAA if you want but bugging security and fighting for prisoner rights is one of the joys of the game.
the CAA gets to nag sec about proper brigging procedure and sentencing, and keep shitsec in check
The experience is not going to be close to lawyer at all, lawyer doesn't have any real power if they don't manage to get higher people on the case. CAA is probably just going to threaten people with his fax machine.
The experience is not going to be close to lawyer at all, lawyer doesn't have any real power if they don't manage to get higher people on the case. CAA is probably just going to threaten people with his fax machine.
it says in the pr description that faxing CC is a last resort. if the CAA spots Shitsec Jones, they gotta take it up with the HoS. If the HoS doesnt do anything, then the captain. if he too doesnt do anything, then they take it up with CC. in addition, the CAA isnt supposed to threaten anyone with a CC fax.
one aspect of the CAA’s creation was to give them some degree of power against shitsec or bad command, whereas the lawyer would rarely be listened to and would straight up be ignored for the most part, hence the whole CC faxing part. CAA is like lawyer but with some extra steps and a degree of authority.
This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
We still need a job that fills in the role lawyer did, if CAAs won't. Having lawyer help prisoners out of a ditch is great, when it happens. It shouldn't be gone imo
add some secure briefcases to caa office/vendor and remove roundstart glasses if they are going to spawn with one
There are some things I dislike about the design:
* They are still pretty similar to lawyers in that they are easy to ignore.
This was the problem that was supposed to be solved in the first place - their status in the chain of command, and their authorization to report people to the next highest authority nullifies this issue.
* They are another meta-protected
As of Bee's current state, metaprotection is required to ensure they aren't ignored. I outlined my reasons for making the role metaprotected earlier as well, most notably because it was at the request of several admins, in addition to the fact that they are metaprotected on other servers, and also because if they are antag eligible it kinda gets rid of their whole point of reporting SOP violations and making sure sec/command/etc stay in line.
* They are like the majority of other RP jobs in that they don't really have a concrete purpose so usually end up tiding
This is a roleplay-focused job, on a roleplaying server. Considering the CAA's position and the responsibilities it has (most notably keeping security and command in check and aligned with SOP, contacting Central Command when necessary, etc), it should be held to the same standard as command roles by admins - maybe even higher.
* They have a lot more access than other jobs that don't have concrete mechanics backing them up.
The access sounds like way more than it actually is. You can enter the cargo office, but not the cargo bay. You can enter the R&D hallway, but not the research office, experimentor room, xenobio, nanite lab, toxins, etc. You can enter the medical hallway, but not cloning, viro, the surgery room, etc. The reason it's there is so that CAA's can make themselves more visible to heads of staff and get a quick glance of a department's status, and pinpoint areas worth investigating. Again, it's not the job's fault if someone decides to abuse it.
This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.
Basically an IC admin role. CC used to send investigators to do this, and usually that didn't go well either.
You could of just made CC ivestigators a whitelisted ghost role maybe?
