AngelBob Contemplations, Part 1

[adoa]

This is a list of compatibility and consistency issues between Angel's Mods and Bob's Mods. Baseline is: All of Angel's Mods, All of Bob's mods, default settings (Industry Overhaul) and dev branch as of 72465f3.

Automation Science Tier

• [x] angels-lamp and small-lamp are functionally identical. With only Angel's Industry they have identical recipes. With Bob's Electronics, their recipes differ in the tier of electronic circuits: basic-circuit-board for small-lamp but electronic-circuit for angels-lamp. Rationale unclear. Either make angels-lamp better in some way, or ensure recipes are identical also with bobselectronics.
• [x] Bob's electrolysis-1 and electrolysis-2 technologies are stripped clean by Angel's Petrochem. The only remaining recipes are small (inline) tanks. Those can easily move to angels-fluid-control. Afterwards, hide the electrolysis-x techs.
• [x] Bob's alloy-processing is a very strange beast and had an issue opened previously, see #334
• [ ] Bob's chemical-processing-1 and -2 are stripped clean by Angel's Petrochem. The only remaining recipes are related to Bob's chemical furnace, which may or may not be needed for Angel's, see also #328
• [x] Angel's new angels-plate-hot-iron reduces the trouble to kickstart steel production, however the technology steel-processing still inherits dependencies on electrolysis-1 and chemical-processing-1 from Bob's mods. Those dependencies need to be removed.
• [x] Technology angels-tin-smelting-1 unlocks basic-tinned-copper-wire recipe required for electronics. However, this dependency locks electronics behind steel-processing and angels-metallurgy-1, which is rather unfortunate. I suggest moving the recipe basic-tinned-copper-wire to a separate technology basic-tin-processing which would become the new prerequisite for electronics, replacing angels-tin-smelting-1. This would make tinned-copper-wire more similar to solder it terms of technology tier, since the latter is available from angels-solder-smelting-basic very early on. It furthermore opens up more choice for the player, whether to prioritize steel or electronics.
• [x] electronics technology is mostly useless without basic-electronics-components which require solid-carbon, the earliest recipe is unlocked by angels-coal-processing, which should be a prerequisite for electronics. The current dependency on alloy-processing can safely be dropped.
• [x] If electronics loses dependency on steel-processing, bob-repair-pack-2 should depend on steel-processing explicitly.
• [x] If electronics loses dependency on alloy-processing, the tech fluid-generator-1 should explicitly depend on steel-processing. Furthermore fluid-generator-1 should depend on angels-bronze-smelting-1.
• [x] Technology water-treatment currently depends on electronics and indirectly on steel-processing. However, none of the unlocked recipes use steel nor basic electronic boards. I recommend having water-treatment depend on either basic-chemistry, fluid-handling, or automation instead. This change would also make algae and automated circuits (without bob's greenhouse) available earlier.
• [x] If water-treatment loses its dependency on electronics (and in turn that on steel-processing), the techs water-washing-1 and basic-chemistry-2 should explicitly depend on them instead.
• [x] fluid-generator-1 needs an additional dependency on angels-bronze-smelting-1.

[KiwiHawk]

In Sea Block, I moved the unlock for Tinned copper wire to Electronics. That's the first place it's used. It didn't seem worth creating a new tech for one recipe.

[adoa]

In Sea Block, I moved the unlock for Tinned copper wire to Electronics. That's the first place it's used. It didn't seem worth creating a new tech for one recipe.

I like that idea. For AngelBob and Seablock this will definitely work, but I am not exactly sure if Component overhaul might need tinned copper wire for other items before circuits … hmm …

[adoa]

Component mode introduces the tech "Cabling components 2" which is the only technology roughly on a similar tech level, but actually later, which requires tinned copper wire. So either a separate tech or putting tinned copper wire on electronics would be fine with the overhauls as well.

[Pezzawinkle]

angels-lamp and small-lamp are functionally identical. With only Angel's Industry they have identical recipes. With Bob's Electronics, their recipes differ in the tier of electronic circuits: basic-circuit-board for small-lamp but electronic-circuit for angels-lamp. Rationale unclear. Either make angels-lamp better in some way, or ensure recipes are identical also with bobselectronics.

ok, looks like from this that there are actual differences... angels light seems to have a harder light, while the vanilla one is softer and for reasons I checked the shred one... lol In terms of the recipe, i have for now unified them to the cheaper recipe.

[adoa]

Was the angels-lamp adjusted to the new night lighting system? looks like there is too much white in there.

[Pezzawinkle]

Angel's new angels-plate-hot-iron reduces the trouble to kickstart steel production, however the technology steel-processing still inherits dependencies on electrolysis-1 and chemical-processing-1 from Bob's mods. Those dependencies need to be removed.

As part of the electrolysis fix (also took the time to remove it as a pre-req on steel-processing and lithium-processing (and some extras for electrolysis-2)). It is down to the just chemical-processing-1 and automation... I'm tempted to leave this as part of the discussion around that as mentioned above. Calling this one partially fixed.

[Pezzawinkle]

With the updates to replacing alloy-processing with angels-coal-processing for the pre-req of electronics, I think leaving steel as a precursor is fine. With the way this currently is (its not too cluttered), enforcing early steel and an actual smelting set-up is more than fine before you get electronics.

[Pezzawinkle]

In Sea Block, I moved the unlock for Tinned copper wire to Electronics. That's the first place it's used. It didn't seem worth creating a new tech for one recipe.

I have no issues moving it back here, ill discuss this with @LovelySanta first though.

[KiwiHawk]

Assuming Tinned copper wire is moved to Electronics, the prerequisites would look more like this. It does bring it forward. None of the removed prerequisites unlock anything required so feel pointless.

Keeping them there doesn't enforce building an angels smelting setup. You can unlock the techs and then ignore (for now).

[Pezzawinkle]

I guess that depends entirely on if we want to consider #329 and the repercussions of that

[adoa]

I guess that depends entirely on if we want to consider #329 and the repercussions of that

The smelting patch mod just prevents you from using sorted ores like iron, copper, tin in a stone furnace to get the plates. It will under no circumstances force you to get blast furnaces before being able to make your first tin plates or lead plates – those can always be obtained from crushed bobmonium and rubyte.

Therefore, I don't see the connection to the smelting patch.

Furthermore, if steel and metallurgy was an intended pre-requisite for electronics, why was basic-solder-smelting introduced in the first place? Currently you can make lead plates, tin plates, and solder early on. The only ingredient to electronics that is locked behind steel and metallurgy is tinned copper wire. But in order to make tinned copper wire you only need tin plates and copper cables, none of which actually require any blast furnace.

Therefore if you really want to enforce early steel and blast furnaces, you have to disable the recipes to get tin and lead from crushed bobmonium/rubyte as well as the basic solder tech. But that might have further unintended consequences.

[adoa]

This is the list of technologies that need both steel and basic electronic boards. Therefore, if electronics loses its dependency on steel-processing, these technologies should depend on steel-processing explicitly:

Automation Science Tier

• radars
• bob-drills-1
• bob-area-drills-1
• bob-repair-pack-2

Transport Science Tier

• automation-2
• solar-energy
• gate
• pumpjack

[Pezzawinkle]

after sleeping on it, I do agree with the flexibility gained by moving steel out... ill start patching that now.

[Pezzawinkle]

I am not 100% sure if this is the correct location to be plugging these tech issues (may move them to a separate file) I can confirm that if the updates are made any later than the timing (of the part 2 patch), then bobs tech tree clean-up script murders the pre-reqs. (run in data-final-fixes stage)

[Pezzawinkle]

Technology water-treatment currently depends on electronics and indirectly on steel-processing. However, none of the unlocked recipes use steel nor basic electronic boards. I recommend having water-treatment depend on either basic-chemistry, fluid-handling, or automation instead. This change would also make algae and automated circuits (without bob's greenhouse) available earlier.

• fluid-handling is where barrels are unlocked, so that would be worse than its current depth.
• automation may be a tad early
• basic-chemistry-1 kind of works
• I think angels-fluid-control (if petrochem) is fine, and leave electronics if not?

[adoa]

My problem with leaving electronics as a prerequisite when bobselectronics is present: water-treatment is a prerequisite for algae, which in turn are needed to automate basic circuit boards, which are the starting point for the basic electronic boards unlocked by electronics.

[Pezzawinkle]

didn't i fix that in part 3? I do know that with the tech overhaul it is very different.

[adoa]

You did, but only if petrochem is present. And now I realize that is sufficient, because without petrochem there is also no bioprocessing, therefore no need for early algae.

[adoa]

Looks like the water-treatment should not be changed when the overhauls are active: #555

[Pezzawinkle]

OK, i think im done with the initial pass-through, can we please start feeding me bugs with different configs now (really should have done this as a PR)... different mod combinations (mainly up-to smelting, then full industries), and different settings, mainly for bobs settings (extra chem/smelting ones etc...).

[Pezzawinkle]

Looks like the water-treatment should not be changed when the overhauls are active: #555

Yeah, industries removed the "old" electronics prereq, when i changed it, i forgot to look for instances it was called later on. Fixed already

[drakesiard]

Note that this breaks tinned wire in an Angels Industries-only configuration (i.e. no Bob's electronics), see #583. For some reason the basic tinned wire no longer is unlocked by the red-science tin smelting tech.

[LovelySanta]

Note that this breaks tinned wire in an Angels Industries-only configuration (i.e. no Bob's electronics), see #583. For some reason the basic tinned wire no longer is unlocked by the red-science tin smelting tech.

Fixed #583 in https://github.com/Arch666Angel/mods/commit/470292da7daca87419c38b3e9aaa87f279481ab8

[Pezzawinkle]

Based on the current level of this thread, I guess the last thing to consider is those empty chemical processing technologies... ive said im happy in its current form, but id like a final thought/review before i close this.

[LovelySanta]

The question is when the technologies are empty.. I assume the 'last' mod to remove things is smelting (which removes the furnaces), so I think it's a good idea that smelting does a global replace technology such that any dependencies move to an angels equivalent, before disabling the technologies in question. I am leaning towards the basic chemistry technologies from petrochem as a suitable replacement? (which will be there since smelting depend on petrochem)

[LovelySanta]

Removing this issue from the next milestone as this is good enough. Leaving the issue open for next contemplation

[KiwiHawk]

I think Bob's Ammonium Chloride recycling recipe should be disabled in Angels.

With Bob's mods, making Radio Thermoelectric Generators produces Ammonium Chloride. So it makes sense for the RTG tech to also unlock the Ammonium Chloride recycling recipe.

In a BA game, creation of Ammonium Chloride gas (from Ammonia and Hydrogen Chloride) is unlocked by Nitrogen Processing 2. Other than the recycling recipe, the other use for Ammonium Chloride gas is Platinum smelting 3.

In summary:

• Ammonium Chloride gas isn't a waste product in BA so doesn't need a recycling recipe.
• Making Ammonium Chloride gas then immediately recycling it is heavily ammonia positive. Seems a bit strange.
• If the Ammonium Chloride recycling recipe is kept, then it shouldn't be unlocked by RTG as this has no relevance

[KiwiHawk]

Resin 2 tech should depend on Nitrogen processing 3 as it unlocks Melamine.