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AntonyCorbett
Size presets for Windowed mode
The new Windowed mode in 1.6.0.3 has been very helpful for use in Zoom--THANK YOU.
Setting the Zoom screenshare to the OnlyM Media Window works well since it has no window decorations/borders and makes it easier to shrink the screenshare to a lower resolution to improve the clarity and performance of the video going out to the Zoom participants.
However, that works best when the size of media window matches the resolution/aspect ratio of the videos being played (especially when the user's computer is older and/or bandwidth is limited). I was able to manually resize it to the specific resolution needed, but it was a bit of work (thankfully it saves the dimensions). It would be helpful if there were some preset size selections for that media window, such as what mirrors the JW videos:
- 720p (1280x720)
- 480p (960x540)
- 360p (640x360)
- Custom (manual resizing)
Perhaps if the "Windows" option is checked, a menu would be available next to or below that checkbox with the above selections (including the text in parentheses), and the Custom option would just be the current mode that allows manual resizing.
If possible, the OnlyM media window would retain the specified dimensions even if the monitor resolution was changed (primarily a benefit for virtual machine users). Unsure if operating systems allow this with a resolution change.
Thanks for considering.
+1
From: JoshLillis [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:57 PM To: AntonyCorbett/OnlyM [email protected] Cc: Subscribed [email protected] Subject: [AntonyCorbett/OnlyM] Size presets for Windowed mode (#339)
The new Windowed mode in 1.6.0.3 has been very helpful for use in Zoom--THANK YOU. Setting the Zoom screenshare to the OnlyM Media Window works well since it has no window decorations/borders and makes it easier to shrink the screenshare to a lower resolution to improve the clarity and performance of the video going out to the Zoom participants.
However, that works best when the size of media window matches the resolution/aspect ratio of the videos being played (especially when the user's computer is older and/or bandwidth is limited). I was able to manually resize it to the specific resolution needed, but it was a bit of work (thankfully it saves the dimensions). It would be helpful if there were some preset size selections for that media window, such as what mirrors the JW videos:
- 720p (1280x720)
- 480p (960x540)
- 360p (640x360)
- Custom (manual resizing) Perhaps if the "Windows" option is checked, a menu would be available next to or below that checkbox with the above selections (including the text in parentheses), and the Custom option would just be the current mode that allows manual resizing.
Thanks for considering.
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Forgot to mention another benefit to this is for those using virtual computers/machines (great for those with limited/unstable internet or older computers) to push video over Zoom. In case the user accidentally resizes the virtual machine window, the OnlyM media window would either not be resized (if possible to extend beyond the monitor boundaries) or would at least allow for quick recovery to the desired dimensions.
@AntonyCorbett If this feature is not burdensome to implement, this would be an excellent enhancement
Forgot to mention another benefit to this is for those using virtual computers/machines (great for those with limited/unstable internet or older computers) to push video over Zoom.
Have you found a VM that works well for this? I have a fairly robust Azure VM that I tried using, but the video was choppy. I figured it was due to a lack of a specialized video card.
I use Paperspace. I can forward you an email I sent another brother with all the nitty gritty details of my setup, if you want.
It may not be your VM, though. Some other tips in that email about players and screen share size might help even with your current setup.
- Josh
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:48 AM Jared Livingston [email protected] wrote:
Forgot to mention another benefit to this is for those using virtual computers/machines (great for those with limited/unstable internet or older computers) to push video over Zoom.
Have you found a VM that works well for this? I have a fairly robust Azure VM that I tried using, but the video was choppy. I figured it was due to a lack of a specialized video card.
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I'd be happy to see your tips! I've used Paperspace for virtual machines in the past, but they did not support virtualization at the time so I was not able to run Docker. That was a showstopper for me.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:59 AM JoshLillis [email protected] wrote:
I use Paperspace. I can forward you an email I sent another brother with all the nitty gritty details of my setup, if you want.
It may not be your VM, though. Some other tips in that email about players and screen share size might help even with your current setup.
- Josh
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:48 AM Jared Livingston [email protected] wrote:
Forgot to mention another benefit to this is for those using virtual computers/machines (great for those with limited/unstable internet or older computers) to push video over Zoom.
Have you found a VM that works well for this? I have a fairly robust Azure VM that I tried using, but the video was choppy. I figured it was due to a lack of a specialized video card.
— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub < https://github.com/AntonyCorbett/OnlyM/issues/339#issuecomment-626204288>, or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/APMVG47LKXOLJEEZOJWGQ5LRQWCOVANCNFSM4MVGI43Q
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Can I post that here or is that off-topic and I should email you directly?
- Josh
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 12:08 PM Jared Livingston [email protected] wrote:
I'd be happy to see your tips! I've used Paperspace for virtual machines in the past, but they did not support virtualization at the time so I was not able to run Docker. That was a showstopper for me.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:59 AM JoshLillis [email protected] wrote:
I use Paperspace. I can forward you an email I sent another brother with all the nitty gritty details of my setup, if you want.
It may not be your VM, though. Some other tips in that email about players and screen share size might help even with your current setup.
- Josh
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:48 AM Jared Livingston <[email protected]
wrote:
Forgot to mention another benefit to this is for those using virtual computers/machines (great for those with limited/unstable internet or older computers) to push video over Zoom.
Have you found a VM that works well for this? I have a fairly robust Azure VM that I tried using, but the video was choppy. I figured it was due to a lack of a specialized video card.
— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub < https://github.com/AntonyCorbett/OnlyM/issues/339#issuecomment-626204288 , or unsubscribe <
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/APMVG47LKXOLJEEZOJWGQ5LRQWCOVANCNFSM4MVGI43Q
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@JoshLillis Hi Josh. Can I suggest you create a gist on github and then just post a link to it? This will make it easier for you to direct others to it and also to keep it updated. Thanks, Antony
Thank you, Antony. Here's the link: https://gist.github.com/JoshLillis/b08803ac6e2246c78d963a02b2fff0a7
Why size presets at all? It should be possible to resize the window automatically to the media resolution. Whatever the resolution is (except exceeding ones).
Any drawbacks of such a solution?
- Transition effects would be a problem here.
My tests today with experimental code changes are working.
A few drawbacks I see:
If you happen to have media that is larger resolution than you want to push through Zoom, quality could suffer. For example, if the media you have is 720p resolution, but you only have the bandwidth to smoothly push 480p videos, the quality could suffer. What I've seen before in my Zoom testing over limited bandwidth.
If the media is larger resolution than your free screen space, it will cause other windows to overlap the media window and cover your content in the screen share.
If the various media is a variety of different resolutions, the window size will vary with each item, giving an unpredictable user experience.
The presets would ensure a more consistent user experience, and give the user more control over the quality of what the recipients see in the screen share.
- Josh
On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 8:05 AM zokradonh @.***> wrote:
Why size presets at all? It should be possible to resize the window automatically to the media resolution. Whatever the resolution is (except exceeding ones).
Any drawbacks of such a solution?
- Transition effects would be a problem here.
My tests today with experimental code changes are working.
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A few drawbacks I see: If you happen to have media that is larger resolution than you want to push through Zoom, quality could suffer. For example, if the media you have is 720p resolution, but you only have the bandwidth to smoothly push 480p videos, the quality could suffer.
You are right. There is a need to limit it.
What I've seen before in my Zoom testing over limited bandwidth. If the media is larger resolution than your free screen space, it will cause other windows to overlap the media window and cover your content in the screen share.
What do you mean with "free screen space"? As long as the media window is in front, no other windows will interfere with screen share. You can also activate "Always top most"(don't know the english translation of the OnlyM option) then you do not have any problem here. Or did I miss something here?
If the various media is a variety of different resolutions, the window size will vary with each item, giving an unpredictable user experience. The presets would ensure a more consistent user experience, and give the user more control over the quality of what the recipients see in the screen share.
If you fix the window size to 720p or 480p then you always transmit 16:9 images. Not all Zoom end user devices use that kind of resolution. Maybe they also have portrait mode which would suffer then. Streaming a quadratic image as 720p would add black borders to left and right and to end users in portrait mode would result in black borders left, right, top and bottom, making the image very small. Streaming only the with correct aspect ratio is in my opinion the best streaming "quality".
Maybe the best option here would be to implement a maximum width and maximum height setting. But keep aspect ratio. So you do not have unpredictable big images and suffered user experience. What do you think about that?
I thought Zoom application windows can still overlap the media window and show the gray boxes to the recipients. I'll have to test that again and check if I have always on top option enabled.
By inconsistent user experience, I meant for the user of OnlyM having the media share window changing size with each item they share could be problematic, though having a max limit would help somewhat.
Perhaps have the presets list which would represent the maximum limits and add a checkbox to automatically resize to match content aspect ratio, where it would never exceed either dimension of the selected resolution?
For smaller content, I wonder if there's a quality difference between OnlyM upscaling it and sharing at the higher resolution or Zoom upscaling on the recipient's end? For example, if you're pushing 720p content, but one of your media is 360p resolution, will it look better/worse/same if OnlyM upscales it in its media window and you push that as 720p vs. pushing at 360p and on the recipient's end, Zoom upscales from 360p to whatever they're viewing at. I would think OnlyM upscaling would be better quality but maybe not.
- Josh
On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:13 AM zokradonh @.***> wrote:
A few drawbacks I see: If you happen to have media that is larger resolution than you want to push through Zoom, quality could suffer. For example, if the media you have is 720p resolution, but you only have the bandwidth to smoothly push 480p videos, the quality could suffer.
You are right. There is a need to limit it.
What I've seen before in my Zoom testing over limited bandwidth. If the media is larger resolution than your free screen space, it will cause other windows to overlap the media window and cover your content in the screen share.
What do you mean with "free screen space"? As long as the media window is in front, no other windows will interfere with screen share. You can also activate "Always top most"(don't know the english translation of the OnlyM option) then you do not have any problem here. Or did I miss something here?
If the various media is a variety of different resolutions, the window size will vary with each item, giving an unpredictable user experience. The presets would ensure a more consistent user experience, and give the user more control over the quality of what the recipients see in the screen share.
If you fix the window size to 720p or 480p then you always transmit 16:9 images. Not all Zoom end user devices use that kind of resolution. Maybe they also have portrait mode which would suffer then. Streaming a quadratic image as 720p would add black borders to left and right and to end users in portrait mode would result in black borders left, right, top and bottom, making the image very small. Streaming only the with correct aspect ratio is in my opinion the best streaming "quality".
Maybe the best option here would be to implement a maximum width and maximum height setting. But keep aspect ratio. So you do not have unpredictable big images and suffered user experience. What do you think about that?
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i would be very happy to see the proposed enhancements having a few options for windowed mode as described in JoshLillis very first post above :-) until today our congregations audio/video team has been dealing with vlc media player for both images and videos which works quite good in the background and provides a smooth user experience. worst case is having several images within a talk in different dimensions and the requirement to show them in a fast sequence. as the occupied screen area has to be redrawn everytime the image dimension changes the zoom client is forced to quit the screen share. my guess this would happen the same, if onlym starts dynamically adjusting the screen area size acoording the presented media size.
@zokradonh: you are right with your concerns about the different media formats to be presented and even more device configurations at the end users site. my opinion: this issue is not feasable (by us) in a way all users will be satisfied and perfectly feed up according their local device configuration. i would focus on the media aspect, size and orientation we mostly use: 16:9, 720p, landscape. this should be communicated to all user together with the recommendation to change their setup accordingly or if unable to do so, we gently provide assistance to those.
greetings from germanys black forrest peter
my guess this would happen the same, if onlym starts dynamically adjusting the screen area size acoording the presented media size.
VLC creates a new Win32 window handle for each new media (with new dimensions?). That is the reason why Zoom needs to restart screen share. OnlyM does not recreate the window. Zoom has no problems with window resizing and adjusts automatically. So resizing would not be a problem.
Also I think the case I mentioned is just an edge case. Most of the Zoom Clients will use something like 16:9. It just feels bad for me to stream black border areas.
But I understand that many OnlyM users like to have a static size to easily manage the windows. I had not yet time to further develop a solution that solves both problems.
greetings back from northern germany ;)
I just noticed, that Antony is working on a .NET 5 port of OnlyM. Then I should wait with any further development until this port is released.
As you can see in the PR, linked above, I took the time to implement a Size-Preset feature for OnlyM - feel free to check it out if you want.
I also had a look at the PR from @zokradonh and tried to integrate that too.
Unfortunately there are a few issues with the auto-sizing process... So before spending more time on that, I'd like to gather the actual interest on the Auto-Resize feature - because personally wouldn't like it, if the windows jumps around and most of the videos / pictures we use, are 720p anyway.
So could you all please add a thumbs up 👍 or thumbs down 👎 to this post, to indicate, if you actually need Auto-Resizing, or not.